CITY QUEUE DODGE : new meta

[PlagueMonk]

Im asking why not allow full premades to be matched against pugs?
Why in a mmo a full wb need to be throwed to the end of the queue to make "random pugs" have a easier encounter?

if one side field 4 full wbs and other side 10 full wbs => you feel that those 6 with no mirror need to be punished for form a wb?

If you enter into a endgame pve instance with "a bunch of random pugs" (mostly rdps) you expect to sucess?

why you expect to sucess in a endgame pvp instance fielding a stupid comp team?

What you are saying though is the PUG WB should be punished then.

I have been a part of organized WBs and on the spot, thrown together organization but if you cannot get into a WB should the solo person not queue then? I trust you have never been steamrolled and then routed to the red barrier. I have a number of times and it sucks.

It should be premade vs premade and PUG vs PUG. If there aren't enough of one type on either side then a matching should not happen imho. (OR there should be lesser pairings, say a 12 vs 12 which could be fun)

we are a small population server

content should not be gated, the more gates there are the worse the product is. You only see from your own POV and you want others to miss out on gearing and its "tough luck" ... where you always have the option to build your own team.

Ive done solo, 6 man, 12 man, 18 man and mostly 24... you know you get out what you put in... I go in solo expecting to lose to RNG, same with any others if RNG is bad... 6 man probably the most fun and chill, easier to setup the downside is no gurantee of pop. Too many people with unrealistic expectations always wanting the W without putting in any work.

Server is not big enough for "ideal" everything is equal at all times (like population balance and number or quality or size of premade balance)

Alright how about this then........let the chips fall where they may but if it's a ROFLSTOMP, the winning side receives no better rewards than the losers? (this means blue bags as top prize) It's not as if that premade guild put in any work to route the PUG to the gate so why should they be rewarded with a gold bag for doing virtually nothing?

Now the only question would be how to write code to figure out those variables. That is something I have no clue about.

[emiliorv]

Spoiler:

What you are saying though is the PUG WB should be punished then.

I have been a part of organized WBs and on the spot, thrown together organization but if you cannot get into a WB should the solo person not queue then? I trust you have never been steamrolled and then routed to the red barrier. I have a number of times and it sucks.

It should be premade vs premade and PUG vs PUG. If there aren't enough of one type on either side then a matching should not happen imho. (OR there should be lesser pairings, say a 12 vs 12 which could be fun)

we are a small population server

content should not be gated, the more gates there are the worse the product is. You only see from your own POV and you want others to miss out on gearing and its "tough luck" ... where you always have the option to build your own team.

Ive done solo, 6 man, 12 man, 18 man and mostly 24... you know you get out what you put in... I go in solo expecting to lose to RNG, same with any others if RNG is bad... 6 man probably the most fun and chill, easier to setup the downside is no gurantee of pop. Too many people with unrealistic expectations always wanting the W without putting in any work.

Server is not big enough for "ideal" everything is equal at all times (like population balance and number or quality or size of premade balance)

Alright how about this then........let the chips fall where they may but if it's a ROFLSTOMP, the winning side receives no better rewards than the losers? (this means blue bags as top prize) It's not as if that premade guild put in any work to route the PUG to the gate so why should they be rewarded with a gold bag for doing virtually nothing?

If you build a super strong grp (meta classes, high RR, competent players) and rush a pve instance in 15 mins while the rest of the ppl need 1hour to do the same => following your argument the reward must be 25% of normal reward?? because, as you said, you made less effort in the run??...seems legit.


You say that Wam/TUP (for example since you quoting him) do "virtually nothing" when field a 24 man wb?? there is cero work/effort behind that wb??
well, since build a top premade wb makes cero effort (virtually nothing) you and all the yolocriers could make your own and enjoy the rain of royals

[Ramlaen]

What you are saying though is the PUG WB should be punished then.

I have been a part of organized WBs and on the spot, thrown together organization but if you cannot get into a WB should the solo person not queue then? I trust you have never been steamrolled and then routed to the red barrier. I have a number of times and it sucks.

It should be premade vs premade and PUG vs PUG. If there aren't enough of one type on either side then a matching should not happen imho. (OR there should be lesser pairings, say a 12 vs 12 which could be fun)

we are a small population server

content should not be gated, the more gates there are the worse the product is. You only see from your own POV and you want others to miss out on gearing and its "tough luck" ... where you always have the option to build your own team.

Ive done solo, 6 man, 12 man, 18 man and mostly 24... you know you get out what you put in... I go in solo expecting to lose to RNG, same with any others if RNG is bad... 6 man probably the most fun and chill, easier to setup the downside is no gurantee of pop. Too many people with unrealistic expectations always wanting the W without putting in any work.

Server is not big enough for "ideal" everything is equal at all times (like population balance and number or quality or size of premade balance)

Alright how about this then........let the chips fall where they may but if it's a ROFLSTOMP, the winning side receives no better rewards than the losers? (this means blue bags as top prize) It's not as if that premade guild put in any work to route the PUG to the gate so why should they be rewarded with a gold bag for doing virtually nothing?

Now the only question would be how to write code to figure out those variables. That is something I have no clue about.

Everyone queing at 5 minutes is letting the chips fall where they may.

[PlagueMonk]

Spoiler:

we are a small population server

content should not be gated, the more gates there are the worse the product is. You only see from your own POV and you want others to miss out on gearing and its "tough luck" ... where you always have the option to build your own team.

Ive done solo, 6 man, 12 man, 18 man and mostly 24... you know you get out what you put in... I go in solo expecting to lose to RNG, same with any others if RNG is bad... 6 man probably the most fun and chill, easier to setup the downside is no gurantee of pop. Too many people with unrealistic expectations always wanting the W without putting in any work.

Server is not big enough for "ideal" everything is equal at all times (like population balance and number or quality or size of premade balance)

Alright how about this then........let the chips fall where they may but if it's a ROFLSTOMP, the winning side receives no better rewards than the losers? (this means blue bags as top prize) It's not as if that premade guild put in any work to route the PUG to the gate so why should they be rewarded with a gold bag for doing virtually nothing?

If you build a super strong grp (meta classes, high RR, competent players) and rush a pve instance in 15 mins while the rest of the ppl need 1hour to do the same => following your argument the reward must be 25% of normal reward?? because, as you said, you made less effort in the run??...seems legit.


You say that Wam/TUP (for example since you quoting him) do "virtually nothing" when field a 24 man wb?? there is cero work/effort behind that wb??
well, since build a top premade wb makes cero effort (virtually nothing) you and all the yolocriers could make your own and enjoy the rain of royals

Please, you make it sound as if the entire WB spent an hour preparing which is complete nonsense. Outside of the odd re-spec, 23 of the 24 players just sign up and hang out while the WB leader is the one doing all of the prep work. So for everyone except the WB leader, it's really not a whole lot different that solo queueing. I'm not going to reward "prep" work since the effort is about the same for 47 of the 48 players involved.

[emiliorv]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Alright how about this then........let the chips fall where they may but if it's a ROFLSTOMP, the winning side receives no better rewards than the losers? (this means blue bags as top prize) It's not as if that premade guild put in any work to route the PUG to the gate so why should they be rewarded with a gold bag for doing virtually nothing?

If you build a super strong grp (meta classes, high RR, competent players) and rush a pve instance in 15 mins while the rest of the ppl need 1hour to do the same => following your argument the reward must be 25% of normal reward?? because, as you said, you made less effort in the run??...seems legit.


You say that Wam/TUP (for example since you quoting him) do "virtually nothing" when field a 24 man wb?? there is cero work/effort behind that wb??
well, since build a top premade wb makes cero effort (virtually nothing) you and all the yolocriers could make your own and enjoy the rain of royals

Please, you make it sound as if the entire WB spent an hour preparing which is complete nonsense. Outside of the odd re-spec, 23 of the 24 players just sign up and hang out while the WB leader is the one doing all of the prep work. So for everyone except the WB leader, it's really not a whole lot different that solo queueing. I'm not going to reward "prep" work since the effort is about the same for 47 of the 48 players involved.

wow!!
Well, since playing in a premade wb its like solo-queuing and makes you win doing virtually nothing....why the fck you dont join a premade wb? why all those solocryers dont join a premade wb???

i know its not rocket science, but its no cero effort...at least they are making SOME effort to improve his chances to win, thats more than the cero effort for soloq.

[Wam]

Isnt it strange a few of the “top” destro guilds push city on there order guilds and then log back to destro to farm pugs and complain, but if they stayed on order they would get the fights they want? Think theres more dodging between city hopping guilds tbh

who are these "top" destro guilds who push city? like rescue team? cntk? salt factory? smash?

Maybe people play both sides for action and challenge, to know grass isn't always greener. Maybe people want to gear up one side after dominating on the other and fighting / killing everyone so not much left to do after that why limit yourself to 50% content

If TuP was so called after a challenge wouldnt you guys que for city on order so you face off against some of the destro guilds? As all your doing at the moment farming cities with little to no resistance?

Fought FMJ many times, fought LOB on destro many times... and fought various other guilds which some order premades like to "dodge" always instant queing...

Fighting same thing over and over again can become tedious, and also city is about gearing up alts more than it is about competition, like i said they should change reward to account based if they want it min max real competition ... if we beat people on our alts with wonky setups and fillers sometimes ... also some of these order guilds have a very high opinion of themselves and a low opinion of us so

our wb's are far from min maxed it gives some of these order guilds that struggle a fighting chance ... the challenge is how bad of a setup we can bring and still win

CNTK besides the usual suspects was pretty good to fight and improved when we fought them before, then they brought alts against us and was unlucky for them...

Italians got good fighting spirit and atleast half their warband is usually solid

theres some others who try who with a bit more clinical could be decent.

so its not like there isn't a challenge (besides lob/nge stack) just whether enemies have their core and you do not... if we have our core and our mains i know who is more than likely to win, if we dont have our core and on alts then we still have a chance of win but its not guaranteed... pretty simple, and no we dont have to play the premade smacker role forever on order, variety is spicey. Maybe further down the road we do it again. Nothing to prove, our results speak for themselves on both sides for the last year, and it only comes down to pve in the real competitive instances.

[Alfa1986]

You might be surprised, but some video games have a rank system for a more even and fair fight. this system works so that the odds of both competing teams are roughly 50/50. each player is assigned a rank (iron, bronze, silver, gold, platinum, etc.)
, and the general level of the team is matched from the private level of a particular player. if the player is weak, then a stronger player is assigned to his team, and vice versa.
With the existing system of pre-assembled pre-mades, it is in principle impossible to create balanced battles, and taking into account the fact that the design of the siege was developed as massive wall-to-wall battles without alternative ways to win, all this leads to much more sad result.

[leondre25]

I don't have much experience at all in Cities so talk my opinion with a grain of salt. but i feel like Cities have been a major source of unhappiness and unbalance in the game. whether it's about a class not being warband viable or about a skill(or collection of them) being too strong.

At this point its pretty obvious to see there is no real solution to solve the premade v Pug problem outside of butchering either side and leaving a major Percentage of the player base unhappy. if its meant to be the premier endgame experience where devs intend the best gear to come from(outside of slower RVR gain that was added for reasons i forget due to a brain fart) it either has to be designed for Competitive Team-play(meaning pugs get the shaft) or for Gearing your characters(meaning Cooperative Team-play gets the shaft). there's no logical way you can have it both ways with our current pop due to the design of cities.

if you're a solo player wanting to get some gear for your rSH/WE/WH/Engi/SW you have to accept that your probably gonna be farmed without a guild/organization and its gonna be an uphill battle to even get a spot as that. I've seen countless suggestions such as turning cities into PVE, making it 48 man instances. but the best solution to the problem i feel is just making Tokens accountwide(or at least allowing a Transfer at a net loss). Otherwise there is no winning solution.

Each side will remain unhappy and we will see another thread about cities imbalance, Class WB Imbalance, and Pug Imbalance. im sure not everyone wants to bring their same old meta AoE specs constantly to cities. im sure the premades dont want to force their members to rotate players who will play slayer choppa etc so they can have a functioning team. it's not just a pug problem of wanting to play something non meta in city. it's just the nature of the design.
Once again i dont have much experience with Cities in particular but this is just what im inferring from what information i have collected from reading forums and and in game chat(which probably means my outlook is skewed)

[sighy]

Ultimately this is an mmorpg, where you are meant to find likeminded people and do the content together with them. And solo is an afterthought.

Mismatches obviously suck, but in a sample size of average 10 instances there isn't much any matchmaking/ranking system could ever do. People who really cared about getting the Sov already have it and retired either the character or from cities entirely. Atm you have people who are either new or on their 6th or whatever alt. Shaking up the meta is not gonna happen, because of the aoe cap and how the cities are designed, with loads of tight corridors/chokepoints, which does have an expiration date, in terms of player interest.

[Adelmar]

Look, this entire debate could basically be settled by having medallion drops for royals/invaders as per live. Granted the shards that were implemented were a step in that direction but at 1/5 effectiveness.

IF the devs were to implement those (whole) medallion drops off of player kills in RvR based on their RR, then I believe the 24/7 2/2/2 only players could fight others of their kind in cities, and the puggy/solo players could get their gear by grinding out in RvR. It'd be a win-win for both parties and you'd have far less of this "us vs them" tribalism.