Please Fix AOE

[Gurf]

one faction dominates one game activity and the other in another.

I'm sorry to ask, what game activity destro is dominating? Apart from zerging middle zones with x2 numbers.
Order complained about destro dominating city, and got their tweaks, so WR became close to 50% nowdays.
Did order became more organized? No, devs just nerfed destro's overperforming morale plays, added morale drain to SW, tweaked their ranged aoe (like order needed ranged aoe buff...facepalm)
So now destro is beaten hard in forts/keeps, with ~20% WR at best due to overperforming ranged AOE on Order. Ppl on destro just stay afk at forts after 1 push, just like order did on cities.

Did Order get more organised? = Yes
Were order forced to reroll to compete? = Yes
Are Destro willing to do the same? = No

[farng84]

so you are saying that overall, it was correct/good to balance game in city as it was not in order favour but it would be wrong to do the same on fort/keep as it would favour destro.
Please note that the point for city and fort are one and the same, with order not bringing enough melee in city and destro not bringing enough ranged in keeps/forts (as also stated in the post you quoted).
While I would agree with you if you said it was a player problem in both cases I cannot agree with your point as it is; it lacks any resemblance of balance. Changes were made to better balance and partially it was due to Order's complaint about city, now destro is expecting the same. You might said that your (Order faction) achievement opened Pandora's box.

I want to say that this is the look of a person standing in front of a hill. He does not see anything behind him and gets confused in conjectures. You think that in the form in which the project is, this is its kind of final stage, forgetting with what limited resources this is all done. The developers gave a post about the morale changes (a year or more ago) and the players then (myself included) showed themselves not restrained and the developers are now very careful with laying out plans for the future. That I think is very correct.
Being unfamiliar, but having a general idea about the development of any projects, I think there is a long board with all the changes and futures that should appear, including the moral play, which should be a decisive factor in long battles. Unfortunately, inherited from the Mythics in the current version of the game, we received a significant superiority of one faction in this aspect. I want to believe that someday the morale will return in an updated quality, balanced for both factions with changes in AOE. And if you looked at my posts, then I am a supporter of the original AoE cap.
And I definitely don't believe that this or that change in the project arises from the whining of one of the parties. Just because you would never see the game even in this form where one faction dominates one game activity and the other in another.

Yes, indeed people take empty forts overnight (EU time) preventing me from participating Alt siege (juicy 5*)... that's an issue or realm population during that time and sad as there is no balanced battle.
I doubt anybody dreams of warhammer's elves tho, they are really ugly (unless they have some good war related hentai I'm not aware of, lol)

Well, personally, at night I dream of pulling the skin on my shield of every killed shaman from my grudge book. But, the old dwarf also dreams of dwarves. And at least unlike my green-skinned opponents, we have them. LOL

It was a verbose answer, but some good points were made.
1) Limited resources limit the development speed. I'm not expecting faster development/changes, to be fair I'm already happy to have the game (and free on top of it). Note that nothing of the sort was mentioned in my post, so I'm not sure of why you went that direction.
2) Devs have a development agenda which is based on priorities and issues known to the team. That is how it should be in any project, feedbacks only emphasise the importance of points which were known to the team or might highlight some point which was overlooked. Again no part of my post implied that I might be expecting anything different.
3) We got the game as it was and devs are working to make it better (overall, live failed and was closed).
4) you don't believe the changes should be based from one party winning. On this I would comment - This is partially wrong because if one of the two factions is overpowered and stomps the other the game loses meaning and the game will fail again as it is not fun to play (unless you like easy winning or enjoy constantly losing). Please note that I do not think that this is the current status of the game

Overall, this part of your answer did not address my post.
What I said is that changes in balance we saw in recent times also contributed in providing a better balance in city (although they were non done solely to balance cities, I think).
As changes made (also) addressed the issue raised by order (at least in part), now destro players are attempting the same route to see if it possible to achieve some result. I think this is an expected reaction.
Hope that a more concise version of my previous post will not be misinterpreted.

Regarding the dreams... I'm not even sure mushrooms do dream. On the contrary, eating them might trigger some very interesting dream

[Boomie82]

Are Destro willing to do the same? = No

sure, buff sorc aoe to the level of bw and rsh to the level of sw and im sure you see a **** ton of them in keep/fort defenses

[farng84]

I'm sorry to ask, what game activity destro is dominating? Apart from zerging middle zones with x2 numbers.

To save text, it is easier to list which one it does not dominate. Or is it something personal? Are you playing as a shaman? Or Chosen who does not part with his 2h weapon even in the city and wants the zerg to drag him through all activities? Then you don't have to apologize.

Please list in which part it does not dominate, we will have the list by exclusion
Personally I play snb chosen, going as tanky as I can, magus and choppa. Mainly magus these days as dps as we lack ranged

[farng84]

one faction dominates one game activity and the other in another.

I'm sorry to ask, what game activity destro is dominating? Apart from zerging middle zones with x2 numbers.
Order complained about destro dominating city, and got their tweaks, so WR became close to 50% nowdays.
Did order became more organized? No, devs just nerfed destro's overperforming morale plays, added morale drain to SW, tweaked their ranged aoe (like order needed ranged aoe buff...facepalm)
So now destro is beaten hard in forts/keeps, with ~20% WR at best due to overperforming ranged AOE on Order. Ppl on destro just stay afk at forts after 1 push, just like order did on cities.

Did Order get more organised? = Yes
Were order forced to reroll to compete? = Yes
Are Destro willing to do the same? = No

I have to agree with Gurf on all of the points (although I hope we will see a raise in the number of rdps in destro soon).

But please let's not forget that the point of this post is providing a discussion regarding AOE dmg (both melee and ranged!) being possibly overtuned and if eventually it needs tuning

[hammerhead]

Hope that a more concise version of my previous post will not be misinterpreted.

Well, let's make it easier.

q:so you are saying that overall, it was correct/good to balance game in city as it was not in order favour but it would be wrong to do the same on fort/keep as it would favour destro.

a:Yes. This is the best that developers can offer you today. And this is better than endless city farming three times a day like it was at the end of summer. If someone disagrees with this, roll up your sleeves and offer your services if you have a few extra hours a day, not for playing, but working on a project.

q:While I would agree with you if you said it was a player problem in both cases I cannot agree with your point as it is; it lacks any resemblance of balance. Changes were made to better balance and partially it was due to
Order's complaint about city, now destro is expecting the same. You might said that your (Order faction) achievement opened Pandora's box.

a:The city is an indicative result of all balance fix and not a subject to complain itself.
The secret of the Destro overperform in city is what in during the entire development period, all three Destro tank received a crazy amount of improvements, up to mirroring abilities, while the Order tanks were either subjected to constant nerf, or were forgotten forever. Destro superior meleeball even before city/fort was introduced as well as the new 24 AOE cap. If you want to say that it all started with only the city, then you are choosing the wrong time period. Enough to walk around the forum for example on the Kobs topic and then it turns out that pandora's box was broken by the Destro(according to your logic).

[hammerhead]

Please list in which part it does not dominate, we will have the list by exclusion
Personally I play snb chosen, going as tanky as I can, magus and choppa. Mainly magus these days as dps as we lack ranged

Then you will have to blame your brothers-in-law, who were kind enough by the creator, who, when going to the fort in a class that is easily played by any appendage on your demonic body, for the fact that they do not wear the equipment necessary for this.
I spent 4 hours yesterday with a group at TM in search of a battle. And somehow it seemed to me that after such a terrible loss (yes, yes, the whole Order mourns the GTDC), in general, Destro is strong and confidently on his feet, and the result for both sides close to .5 speaks more about tactics and hands than about class balance.
On SC (with seasonal deviations), on an open field (yes, sometimes at the expense of numbers, and you expected that you would win 100% with more or less rationing between factions?), In general, according to statistics in CS, destruction dominates.

[farng84]

Hope that a more concise version of my previous post will not be misinterpreted.

Well, let's make it easier.

q:so you are saying that overall, it was correct/good to balance game in city as it was not in order favour but it would be wrong to do the same on fort/keep as it would favour destro.

a:Yes. This is the best that developers can offer you today. And this is better than endless city farming three times a day like it was at the end of summer. If someone disagrees with this, roll up your sleeves and offer your services if you have a few extra hours a day, not for playing, but working on a project.

q:While I would agree with you if you said it was a player problem in both cases I cannot agree with your point as it is; it lacks any resemblance of balance. Changes were made to better balance and partially it was due to
Order's complaint about city, now destro is expecting the same. You might said that your (Order faction) achievement opened Pandora's box.

a:The city is an indicative result of all balance fix and not a subject to complain itself.
The secret of the Destro overperform in city is what in during the entire development period, all three Destro tank received a crazy amount of improvements, up to mirroring abilities, while the Order tanks were either subjected to constant nerf, or were forgotten forever. Destro superior meleeball even before city/fort was introduced as well as the new 24 AOE cap. If you want to say that it all started with only the city, then you are choosing the wrong time period. Enough to walk around the forum for example on the Kobs topic and then it turns out that pandora's box was broken by the Destro(according to your logic).

Sorry mate but I keep finding your answers offtopic and very partial. I also strongly disagree regarding destro overperforming in cities due to having better tanks, which is honestly debateable as a point.
I'm happy to agree with good points against destro as I did often (even in this post), but you are making the discussion a sterile one.
Anyway, nothing of this is on topic for the premise of the OP; we should stop

[farng84]

Please list in which part it does not dominate, we will have the list by exclusion
Personally I play snb chosen, going as tanky as I can, magus and choppa. Mainly magus these days as dps as we lack ranged

Then you will have to blame your brothers-in-law, who were kind enough by the creator, who, when going to the fort in a class that is easily played by any appendage on your demonic body, for the fact that they do not wear the equipment necessary for this.
I spent 4 hours yesterday with a group at TM in search of a battle. And somehow it seemed to me that after such a terrible loss (yes, yes, the whole Order mourns the GTDC), in general, Destro is strong and confidently on his feet, and the result for both sides close to .5 speaks more about tactics and hands than about class balance.
On SC (with seasonal deviations), on an open field (yes, sometimes at the expense of numbers, and you expected that you would win 100% with more or less rationing between factions?), In general, according to statistics in CS, destruction dominates.

I would agree with city siege (at least in the past, not sure about now as I'm not able to participate/see the results from a while) and scenarios (like you correctly said it varies greatly), I could easily disagree with the others...Maybe seeing numbers would be better. From a personal perception it recently looks like order either farm destro to get defence ticks or let them take zones to farm destro in fort. But personal perception is flawed by the small part I (or you) can see (even considering I play on both sides and I pay attention to what is said/impression given in both chats)
However, we are offtopic again

[emiliorv]

Did Order get more organised? = Yes
Were order forced to reroll to compete? = Yes
Are Destro willing to do the same? = No

Did marauder Morale drain nerfed caused by order whine? YES
Did marauder AOE dmg nerfed caused by order whine? YES
Did morale dmg nerfed caused by order whine? YES
Did zealot M4 nerfed caused by order whine? YES

Lets act like nothing of listed before never happened to help one faction to "compete"? YES