Return of Reckoning

Miaso wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:06 pm I have never seen anyone complain about assault Shadow Warrior and never seen them do particularly well in scenarios or ranked. Melee Squig on the other hand is on another level

ASW was already quite strong in scenarios. So the crosscut buff makes zero sense.
I agree that mSH is a bad joke for a long time already. I hope for a change of squig leap to some kind of juggernaut-like ability (a man can dream)

Arbich wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:21 pm

Miaso wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:06 pm I have never seen anyone complain about assault Shadow Warrior and never seen them do particularly well in scenarios or ranked. Melee Squig on the other hand is on another level

ASW was already quite strong in scenarios. So the crosscut buff makes zero sense.
I agree that mSH is a bad joke for a long time already. I hope for a change of squig leap to some kind of juggernaut-like ability (a man can dream)

A man has to start a balance topic for his voice to be heard!

Knowthyself wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:07 am

TiberiusD wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:35 am Buff rSH and nerf mSH.

Have they nerfed ASW? or did I miss something? People actually haven't noticed but this is actually a more effectual buff to ASW if you consider they have more range on some of their ranged abilities and can reach ranged KD without even stance requirement. Have you cried OP single target burst of WL must be nerfed in order to buff its aoe abilities here when it happened? Stop being a hypocrit.

Finally someone who get it, thanks for clearing that out.

Please keep this topic as it is, which is Ranged Bow specs (ST and AoE). I mentioned a few buffes to MSH because ASW got buffed too without any need to it, melee SW was already strong.

Anyway, Ranged SH = Ranged SW

adapter wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:30 pm Please keep this topic as it is, which is Ranged Bow specs (ST and AoE). I mentioned a few buffes to MSH because ASW got buffed too without any need to it, melee SW was already strong.

Anyway, Ranged SH = Ranged SW

Haven't tested the ranged changes yet but they seem to be okay on paper, aside from SS not having a range increase along with SFA/BA. I'll reserve judgement until I get my hands on the specs and test what I need to.

That said, your proposed RSH changes don't make sense since they are different classes and always have been. Class homogenization is something you don't want and goes against the original game design.

Adelmar wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:38 pm

adapter wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:30 pm Please keep this topic as it is, which is Ranged Bow specs (ST and AoE). I mentioned a few buffes to MSH because ASW got buffed too without any need to it, melee SW was already strong.

Anyway, Ranged SH = Ranged SW

Haven't tested the ranged changes yet but they seem to be okay on paper, aside from SS not having a range increase along with SFA/BA. I'll reserve judgement until I get my hands on the specs and test what I need to.

That said, your proposed RSH changes don't make sense since they are different classes and always have been. Class homogenization is something you don't want and goes against the original game design.

This is where I notice a problem. You know, both specs (Big Shootin=Scout/Quick Shootin=Skirmirsh) share the same skills, exactly the same skills. So asking for the same changes is just logical and fair. I get it that the goal is not having perfect mirrors, but, that may mean one side gets a better skill than the other, we already seen RSW got a range aoe morale drain, that is so good that is overpowered and broken, now, what could the squig get? the same? or something worst than that? I would suggest an AoE AP drain at least. But a range aoe morale drain is so good.

Add to that having two 10s knockdowns usable in every stance. 1 is range 1 is melee + a pounce. That is so craaaaaazy good (broken)

Jastojan wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:19 pm

Miaso wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:06 pm I have never seen anyone complain about assault Shadow Warrior and never seen them do particularly well in scenarios or ranked. Melee Squig on the other hand is on another level

Maybe you are new here if you NEVER seen ANYONE...
Still not on the same level as WL... should we all yell now - please nerf WL??? Goddamn...

As SH is not the mirror to WL, changes to it should not be reflected in WL. If you want to talk about changes to Mara in relation to WL that's one thing, but mSH should only be compared to ASW as that is the mirror.

Jesden wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:14 pm

Jastojan wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:19 pm

Miaso wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:06 pm I have never seen anyone complain about assault Shadow Warrior and never seen them do particularly well in scenarios or ranked. Melee Squig on the other hand is on another level

Maybe you are new here if you NEVER seen ANYONE...
Still not on the same level as WL... should we all yell now - please nerf WL??? Goddamn...

As SH is not the mirror to WL, changes to it should not be reflected in WL. If you want to talk about changes to Mara in relation to WL that's one thing, but mSH should only be compared to ASW as that is the mirror.

No it's not. Keep trying.

Play all the classes and get some perspective.

Unless the devs of RoR have decided to implement changes to the mirror pairings, yes it is.

The pet/stances are fluff to implement the toolkits, of which Mara = WL, SH = SW.

Jesden wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:14 pm

Jastojan wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:19 pm

Miaso wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:06 pm I have never seen anyone complain about assault Shadow Warrior and never seen them do particularly well in scenarios or ranked. Melee Squig on the other hand is on another level

Maybe you are new here if you NEVER seen ANYONE...
Still not on the same level as WL... should we all yell now - please nerf WL??? Goddamn...

As SH is not the mirror to WL, changes to it should not be reflected in WL. If you want to talk about changes to Mara in relation to WL that's one thing, but mSH should only be compared to ASW as that is the mirror.

If we talk about mirrors, there are no exact mirrors because many abilities from 1 class on order side are divided among several classes on destro side and vice versa. So this is why we can see players talking about mSH as the mirror of WL or mara as mirror of WL so many times (one says that mirror of WL is mara and the other says that it is mSH). But there is no mirror of WL in the end. WL is combination of these 2 classes (mSH and mara). And it is the same when we try to compare the dmg output, abilities, whole impact on the game etc.. So if players ask for nerf some abilities of mSH which are mirrored to WL like pounce/leap and loner tactic/territorial aggression tactic we should talk about Wl too.