Return of Reckoning

Ok I can give my 2 cents on this topic.
I need to mention that my personel expirience with kotbs and IB are mainly from live, but I gues there is no major changes for those classes since then.

Kotbs. 2H or SnB doesnt matter. Alpha tank for any group. Bring so many utilites in both spec it is not even funny. Crit chance for group in SnB spec, crit chance for all realm in 2H spec. Stat and rezist buf/debuff auras, biggest CC arsenal in game(AOE stagger, AOE snare, AOE root + AOE root+dmg moral, knockdown, improved knockback.

IB. Great off tank who can provide nice single target buffs which kotbs doesnt posses(25% parry+initiate buff, willpower buff, armor buff) + some stat buffs(strenght, toughnes) and 10% crit chance buff which are handy if kotbs is not around. Also heavy cc arsenal, single target knockdown in both 2H and SnB specs, AOE snare with nice dmg, AOE root, single target knockback with specable AOE knockback(similar to SM one). With 2H also solid dmg outpoot while still solid tankynes.

SM. Well my experience is fresh here since I rolled one here on RoR. 2H solid dmg outpoot with solid survivability. SnB medium dmg outpoot with more survivability. Not much utility for group. Only 1 enchantment benefit party members(natures blade), 2 others (self absorb bubble) and rezist debuff(not buffing party members) are handy for BWs or dps AMs to increase theyr dps outpot by a little ammount. Besides whispering wind(5s cooldown decreaser last for 10s for party members with 4s silence - not avalaible for 2H spec with Ether dance), there is nothing SM can offer to his group. Yes he got double spirit rezist debuff, but it only benefit SM him self and DPS AMs. Verry poor CCs: specable single target knockdown,AOE knockback(free imunity giver)and AOE root are what he got., wings of heaven 60% snare with pounce is nice, but verry situational. My opinion is that SM needs some tweaks to bring him in line with others. If AOE knockback will stay in form as it is no, the effect should be much more potent like SHs kaboom for example. Only tank who lack AOE snare(besides m2)(not sure if chosen have AOE snare). I think other 2 blade enchants needs some rework to be potent and less selfish.
Before WAR ends there was prepared patch which would change rezist debuff in to rezist and armor debuff for enemy, while buff party members for the same ammount and insted of bubble selfish enchant would be replaced by party heal enchant.

If I can recommend tank to begginer, Kotbs will definitely win followed by Ironbreaker. SM dancing rotation need more practice and even mastered SM can be overshined by moderate Kotbs or IB.

I won't go so far as to say SM need to be tweaked to be good, but I do agree that besides being a WW/Nature's Blade bot and an off-tank DPS in 2h with WODS survivability, there's not a whole lot to it. I think you take a SM to specifically boost something like a WL with your spirit debuffs and WW. It's a pretty solid utility tank in that aspect, but doesn't match what a solo knight can bring.

The insane damage the SM can dish out more than makes up for his 'lack of utility', imo. The other tanks don't even come close to the burst potential of a SM.

114 ini = 25% chance to be crit (stat steal in khaine spec)? aoe as well? aoe punt that can save lives in rvr, WW (silence), KD (+ 4s CC immun), ap drain. it'd say SM utility is very underrated.

Can't do any of that if a Chosen superpunts you and makes sure to keep you away from the fight.

(no, i'm NOT asking for a BO/SM superpunt, in case anyone was wondering)

shaggyboomboom wrote:114 ini = 25% chance to be crit (stat steal in khaine spec)? aoe as well? aoe punt that can save lives in rvr, WW (silence), KD (+ 4s CC immun), ap drain. it'd say SM utility is very underrated.

114 init is not 25% critical chance. AOE punt is great until you need punt only 1 person from your guarded team mate . Than You give free imunity to everyone in sight, Knockdown is great for SnB spec, but mostly 2H SMs pass that and rather spec in to Hoeth absorb bubble and armor buff. How many SMs runnin AP drain? SMs utility is very underrated because there are very few of them. I am not saying class is worthless, ofcourse its not, but need some tweaks to be usefull outside of the "insane" assist dps...

peterthepan3 wrote:The insane damage the SM can dish out more than makes up for his 'lack of utility', imo. The other tanks don't even come close to the burst potential of a SM.

This "insane" damage is solid assist DPS for a tank, but still far less than any bursty DPS class and even less than BO with his 25% crit tactic. I am afraid even 2H IB has higher kill potential especialy against healers with right timing of rotation, cawe in and earth shatter, thanks to outgoing heal debuff.

Wdova wrote:

shaggyboomboom wrote:114 ini = 25% chance to be crit (stat steal in khaine spec)? aoe as well? aoe punt that can save lives in rvr, WW (silence), KD (+ 4s CC immun), ap drain. it'd say SM utility is very underrated.

114 init is not 25% critical chance. AOE punt is great until you need punt only 1 person from your guarded team mate . Than You give free imunity to everyone in sight, Knockdown is great for SnB spec, but mostly 2H SMs pass that and rather spec in to Hoeth absorb bubble and armor buff. How many SMs runnin AP drain? SMs utility is very underrated because there are very few of them. I am not saying class is worthless, ofcourse its not, but need some tweaks to be usefull outside of the "insane" assist dps...

peterthepan3 wrote:The insane damage the SM can dish out more than makes up for his 'lack of utility', imo. The other tanks don't even come close to the burst potential of a SM.

This "insane" damage is solid assist DPS for a tank, but still far less than any bursty DPS class and even less than BO with his 25% crit tactic. I am afraid even 2H IB has higher kill potential especialy against healers with right timing of rotation, cawe in and earth shatter, thanks to outgoing heal debuff.

I think WoDS is my main complaint with SM's vs BO's. God I wish I could do that on a 2H BO haha. Parry Parry Parry Parry

Wdova wrote: This "insane" damage is solid assist DPS for a tank, but still far less than any bursty DPS class and even less than BO with his 25% crit tactic. I am afraid even 2H IB has higher kill potential especialy against healers with right timing of rotation, cawe in and earth shatter, thanks to outgoing heal debuff.

With 42% crit and 850str, I am critting ether dances for 900/950+ on debuffed targets. Bear in mind that they have ensorcelled agony and blurring shock, and that is huge burst potential.

BO does more DMG against squishies, but not as much against non-squishies as the SM does.

The damage an IB does can not compare, imo.

peterthepan3 wrote:

Wdova wrote: This "insane" damage is solid assist DPS for a tank, but still far less than any bursty DPS class and even less than BO with his 25% crit tactic. I am afraid even 2H IB has higher kill potential especialy against healers with right timing of rotation, cawe in and earth shatter, thanks to outgoing heal debuff.

With 42% crit and 850str, I am critting ether dances for 900/950+ on debuffed targets. Bear in mind that they have ensorcelled agony and blurring shock, and that is huge burst potential.

BO does more DMG against squishies, but not as much against non-squishies as the SM does.

The damage an IB does can not compare, imo.

add PE 1st proc, EA, maybe CoC and thats even more dmg

peterthepan3 wrote:

Wdova wrote: This "insane" damage is solid assist DPS for a tank, but still far less than any bursty DPS class and even less than BO with his 25% crit tactic. I am afraid even 2H IB has higher kill potential especialy against healers with right timing of rotation, cawe in and earth shatter, thanks to outgoing heal debuff.

With 42% crit and 850str, I am critting ether dances for 900/950+ on debuffed targets. Bear in mind that they have ensorcelled agony and blurring shock, and that is huge burst potential.

BO does more DMG against squishies, but not as much against non-squishies as the SM does.

The damage an IB does can not compare, imo.

Man, how do you get that much Str? I've been slotting mostly Str(not top end) talismans and run full Merc and 39 RR weapon right now and just got full Str Renown points and only sitting at 666 Str base.

I keep thinking about getting some sort of jewelry set but if I do I'm going to lose a huge chunk of Str from losing my green jewelry as well O.o

What am I missing?