Return of Reckoning

roadkillrobin wrote:Yeah around 5%. Thats worth dropping sheild for?

Oppressing Blows is still 15% crit chance. Anyway 2h Chosen now is useless for large scale warband play. Luckely SnB is totally crap too

Chosen nerf?
Ok.

zumos2 wrote:

peterthepan3 wrote:Lol @ 2h chosen 'non-meta' comment. you watched any of the 6v6s as of late?

Or Phalanx suddenly running 2H chosens after we reported the bug?

Hey, as robin said before we knew it for a long time and we ran with 2 2hander chosens in the past for testing. The profit isn't a big deal in the current state of the game. You can test/see it by yourself if you lead a destro warband. I just saw the bug report on github and it's totally random - btw thanks to pxl to report bugs on WL- . For spreading debuffs properly, you need 2-3 of these classes in the warband and sadly you'll gimp yourself way too much if you do that. [ same like marauders morale drain ]

Here's another tip: You can stack CS + Challange + Wind-Woven Shield at the same time. Should we use it, on the paper yes, are we running it, hell no. Winning is all about spike damage in this game, sadly, there is no point to run turtle specs or setups.

For a proper usage 2hander chosen in warband:

1-You need a choppa in that chosens party for spamming rending blade. [chop fasta]
2-Chosen gonna gimp himself by using 2hander unless he's high level and bis gear. [the only chosen who can make it horsewhisperer atm and he's still too squishy in zergy atmosphere. and if you think he's by himself TOO effective, i'll clap him for doing a good job cause we dont feel ANY difference.]
3-You will lose 1 HTL
4-You will lose morale potantial from that chosen.
5-Your guarded target will be in danger due to get how easly 2hander chosen be CC'd.

I think it's a fair trade-off, and the WHOLE dread tree for chosen designed around CS, so we'll see what Torq gonna tweak in the future otherwise that tree will be trash for warbands.

peterthepan3 wrote: Didn't report it during this time? :/

We thought, it's working as intented same like WL's
Just focus on fall damage+procs matey.

BG changes are very nice - climbing to FoF really hurt

weren't the fall dmg on wl pull solved ?

I'm confused about the BG changes, there still is no reason to take a BG over a Chosen or BO in a WB.

- Force of Fury and None Shall Pass got swapped
- Force of Fury got massively nerfed to the point that it's hardly worthwhile
- None Shall Pass got buffed to make it a good ability
- Force of Fury and None Shall Pass got swapped again

I fail the see the logic in this as it addresses none of the core issues that prevents a BG from getting a spot in a WB: group utility.

None Shall Pass is now a good ability, but it helps with the survivability of the BG - something that a BG never had issues with anyways. Force of Fury now also applies to the Dark Protector but as the armour element of the buff doesn't stack with armour pots and as it's now a percentage based reduction, it doesn't do a lot.

Other than that, the bubble and the parry ability apply to the Dark Protector as well but the bubble blows up instantly in WB fights and the parry proc gets eaten up by AA's alone in a WB (although it gives AP to the party, which is nice).

The BG still severely lacks any meaningful group utility, and would benefit from additional abilities that buff his/her Dark Protector:

- Make Bolstering Anger also apply to its Dark Protector
- Replace the armour element of Force of Fury with something that isn't redundant given the prevalence of armour pots and bump the critical reduction somewhat
- Remove the damage component of None Shall Pass as 126 is hardly noticeable, and turn it into a group wide stat-buff (somewhat similar to the Nature's Blade of a SM)
- Give it a PBAOE morale stripping morale - this would be its main unique selling point for a WB as Chosen/BO doesn't have it and Destro by and large doesn't have it.

Also, please review Monstrous Ruin and Blade of Ruin as they remain underwhelming for a DPS spec.

Yussssssssss just have to do those mid tier quests like 7 and 8x and you have the mid tier seals !!!!!!!!! The channel cooldown set shall be mine! Oh yes, it shall be mine!

Marsares wrote:I'm confused about the BG changes, there still is no reason to take a BG over a Chosen or BO in a WB.

- Force of Fury and None Shall Pass got swapped
- Force of Fury got massively nerfed to the point that it's hardly worthwhile
- None Shall Pass got buffed to make it a good ability
- Force of Fury and None Shall Pass got swapped again

FoF got massively BUFFED in that it now also applies to your DP. without the multiplicative change, it would've likely been broken as hell. like, here, enjoy this completely immune to crits choppa

Marsares wrote: I fail the see the logic in this as it addresses none of the core issues that prevents a BG from getting a spot in a WB: group utility.

None Shall Pass is now a good ability, but it helps with the survivability of the BG - something that a BG never had issues with anyways. Force of Fury now also applies to the Dark Protector but as the armour element of the buff doesn't stack with armour pots and as it's now a percentage based reduction, it doesn't do a lot.

Other than that, the bubble and the parry ability apply to the Dark Protector as well but the bubble blows up instantly in WB fights and the parry proc gets eaten up by AA's alone in a WB (although it gives AP to the party, which is nice).

i completely agree, however, you didn't mention SCs, which is where these new abilities truly shine. elite training is great there because A: it now adds disrupt and B: you're fighting order here... i refer you to point A. the fact that it also procs on parry is almost a downside. it works great when charging casters, not so much when in melee

shield of rage is just sorta nice whilst also sorta crap, but that's an issue with all self shields and bubbles not scaling well at higher levels

NSP i dunno i hate these AFK abilities that achieve nothing

Marsares wrote: The BG still severely lacks any meaningful group utility, and would benefit from additional abilities that buff his/her Dark Protector:

- Make Bolstering Anger also apply to its Dark Protector
- Replace the armour element of Force of Fury with something that isn't redundant given the prevalence of armour pots and bump the critical reduction somewhat

- would be a nice addition seen as you can now grab both it and FoF
- with what though? the crit reduction is already great. crit reduction is really hard to get

FOF in currently form is not great at all, 1rst thing first thing first it's better the more you dd is subject to crit which is alredy bad as have a dd which have like base 30% crit mean he's dead.
in the opposite scenario remove 5-7% crit every 20 for 10 sec is ****.

wanna remove a 45% then it should apply AFTER the enemy player crit chance get added so bw --> 80% chance to crit + choppa 10% = 90%

90% x0.55= 49.5% this is how the skill suppose to work, not flat reduction not LOl 10% cutted to 6%

the only good case scenario is when you dd it have debuffed ini so bad which well is actully handy have crit reduciton like this; still it does nothing if enemy have 80% chance to crit he gona crit you anyway which make FOF super /hyper situational.

IT was good as flat value for 2h BG now not even for that. At least it still give 100-200 armor over normal pot.

The only good additoon to bg was absorb to dark protector which is the only reason you use abosrb (jimp yourself help an ally) and 2h KD (which would had been better by add it to exeisting one if it was possible instead force you to spend 1 additonal mastery point which is very hard to find on BG)

Aoe snare is still a **** compared to IB one (cone vs 360 degree), CD should be more spamable to be in line with KOBS perma crit.

Haojin wrote:

Spoiler:

zumos2 wrote:

peterthepan3 wrote:Lol @ 2h chosen 'non-meta' comment. you watched any of the 6v6s as of late?

Or Phalanx suddenly running 2H chosens after we reported the bug?

Hey, as robin said before we knew it for a long time and we ran with 2 2hander chosens in the past for testing. The profit isn't a big deal in the current state of the game. You can test/see it by yourself if you lead a destro warband. I just saw the bug report on github and it's totally random - btw thanks to pxl to report bugs on WL- . For spreading debuffs properly, you need 2-3 of these classes in the warband and sadly you'll gimp yourself way too much if you do that. [ same like marauders morale drain ]

Here's another tip: You can stack CS + Challange + Wind-Woven Shield at the same time. Should we use it, on the paper yes, are we running it, hell no. Winning is all about spike damage in this game, sadly, there is no point to run turtle specs or setups.

For a proper usage 2hander chosen in warband:

1-You need a choppa in that chosens party for spamming rending blade. [chop fasta]
2-Chosen gonna gimp himself by using 2hander unless he's high level and bis gear. [the only chosen who can make it horsewhisperer atm and he's still too squishy in zergy atmosphere. and if you think he's by himself TOO effective, i'll clap him for doing a good job cause we dont feel ANY difference.]
3-You will lose 1 HTL
4-You will lose morale potantial from that chosen.
5-Your guarded target will be in danger due to get how easly 2hander chosen be CC'd.

I think it's a fair trade-off, and the WHOLE dread tree for chosen designed around CS, so we'll see what Torq gonna tweak in the future otherwise that tree will be trash for warbands.

peterthepan3 wrote: Didn't report it during this time? :/

We thought, it's working as intented same like WL's
Just focus on fall damage+procs matey.

Even if CS doesn't stack with Challenge I still would run at least two Chosen with it. CS is one of the main advantages from destro over order. With proper gearing I definitely believe you should be able to be tanky enough. I would say 5-6 HTL's should be enough so that isn't a big deal. Having 2 choppa's in the warband is quite standard I would say, so I don't see that as a problem. I don't see why 2h Chosen would be that much more susceptable to CC. You most likeley will get both immunities in the start of every fight and spam slowed regardless of your class/gear. Sure you will defend more attacks with the shield, but I don't believe it matters with the CC spam that is always there. Besides the person you are guarding should always be looking at where their tank is and if he is CC'd in a problematic way. Main disadvantage obviously is losing the morale pump on two Chosens. Is it worth losing those two extra razes for CS? I would say it is myself.