MELEE: STR vs WS - Haven't seen this in a while

[roadkillrobin]

I think he's wondering about the worth of Parry Striketrough from Str tho.

[Osred]

Anyone know how WS penetration is calculated after using Armor debuffs? Is WS pen calculated based on the remaining armor after the armor debuff or before.

[roadkillrobin]

Should be against currently active armor amount. (Post debuff) Dots aplied before debuff still use the pre debuff value if im not mistaken, as they only check mitigration when aplied.

[freshour]

Oh I meant Parry Strikethrough on gear. For instance the lair boss cloak with 2% parry, and -2% chance to be parried. With 20 wounds as well for my class.

I can supplement that with a 30 str 20 wounds cloak for more str. But -2% chance to be parried on average... when I don't have much parry strikethrough apart from the -10% ability that not all specs take due to demand of going to up to heal debuff as well as high up on the sac tree....

I know with different debuffs and hitting different targets it is nearly impossible to say... 1% parry strikethrough ='s blank. But is it safe to say a cloak with 2% parry strikethrough, when you literally heal for nothing with lifetaps when you get parried, is more valuable than any cloak available with 30-36 str? Intuitively it would seem that has to be true.

[Luth]

When the enemy has any decent tank(s), you normally don't have the luxury of striking targets into the back or reaching the clothies, so the targets you hit (i.e. other melees in the face) should have a noticeable parry chance for most of the time and therefore imo the parry reduction is more valuable.

[th3gatekeeper]

When the enemy has any decent tank(s), you normally don't have the luxury of striking targets into the back or reaching the clothies, so the targets you hit (i.e. other melees in the face) should have a noticeable parry chance for most of the time and therefore imo the parry reduction is more valuable.

I agree, but to what extent? You wouldnt say 2% parry strikethrough is the same as 200 STR would you? So there is a "ratio" you would consider fair.

I was trying to arrive at some calculations for this, and came up with maybe AROUND 20 str = 1% parry strikethrough. Something in that ballpark, though it may be higher depending on what you value....

So a cloak with 2% strikethrough, 20 wounds and 2% parry is REALLY equivalent to:
40 STR
20 wounds
2% parry.

However when attacking a squishie target (not a MDPS OR Tank) then its probably next to "worthless" since RDPS dont stack parry anyways... so its a tough one.

For MOST classes I might say "well you rarely kill a tank, so just grab STR as it benefits both"

But Melee DOK is special because their ability to sustain on the frontline relies on their ability to hit so for that purpose I think the strikethrough is worth quite a bit more, as it will lead to higher survivability in most situations.... Also I dont think melee DOKs have much touble killing squishies as long as they use heal debuff.

[Luth]

When the enemy has any decent tank(s), you normally don't have the luxury of striking targets into the back or reaching the clothies, so the targets you hit (i.e. other melees in the face) should have a noticeable parry chance for most of the time and therefore imo the parry reduction is more valuable.

I agree, but to what extent? You wouldnt say 2% parry strikethrough is the same as 200 STR would you? So there is a "ratio" you would consider fair.

This was his question:

But is it safe to say a cloak with 2% parry strikethrough [...] is more valuable than any cloak available with 30-36 str?

However when attacking a squishie target (not a MDPS OR Tank) then its probably next to "worthless" since RDPS dont stack parry anyways... so its a tough one.

For MOST classes I might say "well you rarely kill a tank, so just grab STR as it benefits both"

But Melee DOK is special because their ability to sustain on the frontline relies on their ability to hit so for that purpose I think the strikethrough is worth quite a bit more, as it will lead to higher survivability in most situations.... Also I dont think melee DOKs have much touble killing squishies as long as they use heal debuff.

I don't understand; this is pretty much what i wrote, what you already quoted and additionally why i think that a melee healer won't get into the situation of hitting cloth targets very often against decent enemies:

Spoiler:

When the enemy has any decent tank(s), you normally don't have the luxury of striking targets into the back or reaching the clothies, so the targets you hit (i.e. other melees in the face) should have a noticeable parry chance for most of the time and therefore imo the parry reduction is more valuable.

[freshour]

Well that makes quite a bit of sense to me haha. But yeah generally in SC's. There is that initial stalemate of tanks. Where one side makes a mistake, the other side makes a push then you finally get to obliterate the squishies as they run run run. Unlike RVR you don't have to chase as they are leaving the objective unless playing Blackfire Basin which is why I love SCs haha.

But okay, fair enough. I will buy that in that basically any form of parry strike through > all other melee bonuses currently available in that particular slot.

I'll say that the Beastlord set is the exception in that it has a 5pc bonus of parry strikethrough but has so many wasted stats in weaponskill/willpower with very little str. However, the green bag set 3 pc is parry strikethrough so yeah... that makes a lot of sense.

Thank you for the replies!