Changelog 29/11/16

[Haojin]

DR is a gamekiller debuff, i must say. It was tested in other way [ dps buff ] and failed.

Let's think about opposite side got 100 aao:
That means for a 7 k hp player : 4620 hp. With 2 coordinated AoE cannons on a bloby spot [which is very possible in keep fights because of map designs] = insta wipe.

And aao exploit is very possible in certain maps like Praag, Eataine.

[Marsares]

Seriously, this wounds debuff and AoE increase based on AAO is ridiculous.

Please remember that the side with low population can still zerg, its not only the side with high population that zergs or blobs.

Especially if you have a system where the high population is required to spread around the map, then the AAO side will blob even more to farm anything in his path with massive ease. And the ONLY counter for it, is for the high population side to blob or zerg even harder... and if they can't do it because of massive unbalance on stats they'll just leave the **** zone altogether - but guess what? You only have one active zone now. So quit or do scenarios is what you're saying.

You are basically promoting x-realming now in order to chase AAO. As soon as one wipe happens people will start switching sides in order to chase AAO due to its massive advantage now.

Before people would switch to AAO side in order to gain a lot of rr with kills, but they would (usually) ultimately lose the zone. Now you're basically making it impossible for the high population side to do anything. And people will obviously chase AAO for the huge advantage its giving.

DR is a stupid concept, just remove it, and go with the idea of removing AoE caps to promote spreading out.

I have to agree here, hence why I argued against tying AOE cap or anything to AAO.

Yes, it does matter if one side outnumbers the other side in a zone, but what more matters is if one side outnumbers a side in a local fight. You could have 150 Order in a zone, vs 50 Destro, but that 50 Destro can then blob together to farm the 30 Order that are defending a far-away BO. Linking not only the AOE cap, but also WNDS to AAO makes it even more out of kilter.

That's why I thought that Azareal's original proposal around friendly fire was more complicated, but much better.

I know you're not afraid to try things, Azareal, so I'm happy to test all this but I do fear that in this instance you got it wrong. Hopefully we'll get some guild groups up tonight to give it a test-run and to give some more feedback!

[Lektroluv]

Can we fix this too? this rotation happened in space of time of 2 seconds, and from much longer range thant Squigh herder class and out of detaunt range.

https://postimg.org/image/ul3u7ig83/

Unfortunately I have no screenshot to post right now, but Nuclearpotato frequently takes me out in less than 3 seconds with several 2k+ crits. I am sure every other order on the server has been on the receiving end of that.

Where's the imbalance then?

Look at the picture other time and see the pet hits, and tell me other time why the Squigh pet is the one which got a nerf, while enginer still has 220 range and damage buff?

[Azarael]

Well, a couple of things:

1) Complaining that a side with AAO will be ruined by the debuff isn't a problem for me. I told you guys already: the optimal solution is a hard lock. In the absence of any ability to create hard population locks in the RvR lake, the next best thing is to progressively ruin the game for the faction with 2 or 3 times the numbers, or do you think I should just let people roll around with 300% AAO without any penalty?

I'm not sure what you guys expect me to do here. There has to be some actual incentive to reroll to the opposite faction or there is no point having DR and we might as well just sit back and accept that crossrealming will ruin the RvR system. This'll only get worse when it actually matters. What we've got here is a cute sideshow. T2 and Devastator have already shown that if you let people crossrealm their way to victory, EVERYONE will do it.

2) You wouldn't believe the pushback over the AoE proposals. At a certain point it just gets tiresome reading the contradictions on the forum. People say they're tired of zerging and the battlefield is hostile to small groups, tired of crossrealming, etc, etc, but they complain endlessly about every measure that's introduced to deal with any of these problems, with anything they can muster, be it muh nostalgia or muh bomb warbands or muh separate small scale fights despite having three times as many men as the enemy.

The general gist I'm getting is "Solve the problems... but you'd better not do it in a way that inconveniences me, personally, or I'm going to pour out enough salt to fill a mine. Oh, and don't do anything too complex, because if you do that, it's not Warhammer any more. Oh but you can't think too simple either, because what about this and that and the other? Oh you keep patching to handle this and that and the other, you don't know what you're doing, roll it back, revert."

[dur3al]

Can we fix this too? this rotation happened in space of time of 2 seconds, and from much longer range thant Squigh herder class and out of detaunt range.

https://postimg.org/image/ul3u7ig83/

Unfortunately I have no screenshot to post right now, but Nuclearpotato frequently takes me out in less than 3 seconds with several 2k+ crits. I am sure every other order on the server has been on the receiving end of that.

Where's the imbalance then?

Apparently being 1 or 2 shot at 150ft range is "balanced", because both sides can do it.. ? Just you wait until more good players pick-up magus/engineers, and I won't give it much longer to have them nerfed

[Gachimuchi]

Squigs were regularly AAing people for 1k damage. If you don't see how that's a problem then there's no use trying to argue with you.

You are liying, and you know it... the only way a SH does those hits is using moral 3, and double autoattack damage ability which has 3 minutes cooldown.
My Squig herder has 1052 Ballistic skills, and that is simply a big lie... don't need to argue with me, you are simply liying.

Correct. The only way you are hitting those numbers are with Squig Frenzy and Squig Beast, which at best is at every 3 min, so stop spreading bs.

Um, no. Spiked squig was regularly AA crit for 1k lmao. I'm pretty sure it's just L2P issue on your part. "I can't do it therefore nobody can"

Think for a second that most two-handers nowadays have a DPS of about 79 or so. Squigs were attacking with a weapon DPS of 100. 2Hs crit for 600-800 regularly with seeing numbers in the 1.2k range with armor debuffs applied.

[bloodi]

I'm not sure what you guys expect me to do here. There has to be some actual incentive to reroll to the opposite faction or there is no point having DR and we might as well just sit back and accept that crossrealming will ruin the RvR system. This'll only get worse when it actually matters. What we've got here is a cute sideshow. T2 and Devastator have already shown that if you let people crossrealm their way to victory, EVERYONE will do it.
."

33% debuff on 100% aoo its a bit too step, you can still fight in the lakes with that AoO but when you are debuffed by that much being attacked by anyone will drop you down.

There is nuances to everything, being unable to survive to any 2 dps when you have a numeric advantage is a bit on the extreme side.

[Glorian]

Look at the picture other time and see the pet hits, and tell me other time why the Squigh pet is the one which got a nerf, while enginer still has 220 range and damage buff?

Engineer has no 220 feet Range Attack.

Gunblast, Focused Fire = MAX. 140 feet.
Snipe = MAX 175 feet.

Gunturret Attack Range ~ not sure 120 feet max I think.

[Akalukz]

I would like to think that instead of punishing players on one realm, why not reward players on the other realm instead.

you have had some good thoughts on things, maybe string a few together, instead of a b or c maybe an ab or ac or bc system would work.

Mix in damage reduction / a wounds buff / and an aoe cap increase for the underdog side. This will give a chance to take advantage of the AAO. But don't overly penalize a side that can't prohibit players.

I would really hate to see any type of population caps as that rewards people with hours to play. While punishing casual players who just want to play for an hour or so.

EDIT: For me it has always been, if there is a chance to fight and get some kills against a superior number of enemies, then let's roll, but if there is just no way it's happening, well then it's time to log off. So give the underdog the tools to "get some kills"

[Azarael]

Gun Turret after being stationary for 16 seconds: 120ft
Engineer after being stationary for 16 seconds: 140ft
Snipe after being stationary for 16 seconds: 196ft

I would like to think that instead of punishing players on one realm, why not reward players on the other realm instead.

you have had some good thoughts on things, maybe string a few together, instead of a b or c maybe an ab or ac or bc system would work.

Mix in damage reduction / a wounds buff / and an aoe cap increase for the underdog side. This will give a chance to take advantage of the AAO. But don't overly penalize a side that can't prohibit players.

I would really hate to see any type of population caps as that rewards people with hours to play. While punishing casual players who just want to play for an hour or so.

A reward/buff on the outnumbered side is a punish/debuff on the outnumbering side, with the added annoyance that rewards create gain inflation. This is especially dangerous with renown.

If they have tools to "get some kills", what happens? The outnumbering side complains. "I can't help being on the outnumbering faction, don't you dare punish me!"