Return of Reckoning

User has been issued a warning for this post, for the following reasons:

- Just linking a video without giving any argument translates to "+/- 1"
- The Chosen is fighting Pugs, possibly undergeared (he is rr80)
- There were several 1v1 situations.
- I specifically said: no "on live..." arguments.

Did you just link a video from 2010? I will give you a few minutes to edit your post...

Tifereth wrote:Given that some 2H builds are in a very
good spot, I thought it was worth mentioning.

Tbt only SM and IB have viable 2H builds, in pretty much every other case SnB spec/SnB dps spec is superior

i puted video because he explain that tactic, not because show chosens are op or something, seems noone of u watched video till end

If you are not gonna take the time to explain something yourself, then simply don't post in this thread. Specially if your videos are from 2010 (which was very different to 1.4.8) - Penril.

The healer equivalent reduces effectiveness in that role for taking a dps boost. Surely the equivalent then is guard. Reduce guard effectiveness. Why should a tank be able to take a tactic that is meant to mean you are abandoning your role and still maintain full effectiveness of the main mechanic of that role. Reducing the armor loss while still keeping the damage bonus and full effectiveness of your archetype mechanic. Seems like a no brainer that the armor loss is meant to stop tanks guarding. These tactics say I am a dps.

same i can ask why i play as mdps and die in sc because of dps archimages dont heal?

TenTonHammer wrote:Tbt only SM and IB have viable 2H builds, in pretty much every other case SnB spec/SnB dps spec is superior

I'd agree, while BO has in no way a bad 2H DPS spec and performs on a decent level, hence I lumped him in on my first post.

Obviously, Bitterstone would benefit from IBs on steroids, so I'm just trying to be impartial here.
Not wanting to stop, or block the discussion and looking forward to new ideas, just giving food for thought.

Telen wrote:The healer equivalent reduces effectiveness in that role for taking a dps boost. Surely the equivalent then is guard. Reduce guard effectiveness. Why should a tank be able to take a tactic that is meant to mean you are abandoning your role and still maintain full effectiveness of the main mechanic of that role. Reducing the armor loss while still keeping the damage bonus and full effectiveness of your archetype mechanic. Seems like a no brainer that the armor loss is meant to stop tanks guarding. These tactics say I am a dps.

At least someone understood what I was proposing.

porkstar wrote:

GodlessCrom wrote:Literally no one ever would pick that tactic and for good reason. 15% more damage from all sources is insane. You'd be squishy as hell. As a tank, you aren't doing 15% more dmg to everyone around you, you generally do that dmg to one target. So 15% more dmg from all sources would just ensure that FO tanks die instantly to rdps. It would a nerf to an already terrible tactic.

That was my point to illustrate that currently the risk of this tactic it isn't really that bad. It's just a fundamentally situational tactic. It's useful, for example, if your group is in a fight and you just can't quite squeeze out enough dps and at the same time are never really under any pressure of dying. Get the tanks to put on some focused offense and squeeze out a bit more. Or it's great for OffTank PvE as already mentioned. I don't see how improving out dmg or reducing inc dmg with this tactic will improve game-play in a large scale setting. It seems like one of those surreptitious pug buff requests.

Except it is fundamentally bad and never picked by anyone that I know of. And I know a few decent dps tanks, none of whom pick FO. What happened on live is irrelevant in this case because the only reason anyone ever picked FO was because they had so much armor, having 33% less barely mattered, and they had such insane offensive stats they could pump out crazy damage.

I will say, someone did raise a good point when they said that certain classes may well end up overperforming. Black Orcs and Swordmasters do a lot of damage, and Ironbreakers aren't that far behind. All of those classes also get the Great Weapon Mastery tactic, and if they slot both they will end up with 25% increased damage. Now, that's two tactics devoted to doing damage, probably alongside others (Stab You Gooder, Sweet Revenge, etc.) and I could see that getting crazy. At the same time, they're giving up a lot of defense and utility (armor buff tactic, Rugged, You Seez me Block Dat?, etc.) to achieve that.

The solution clearly is to nerf orcs and buff dwarfs

So again, I'd like to ask what is the goal with Focused Offense? Is it to make a tank into an mdps with less damage and more utility, similar to slotting Divine Fury on a DoK or WP? Or is it just to let tanks keep tanking but do more damage at the trade-off of taking more as well?

GodlessCrom wrote:So again, I'd like to ask what is the goal with Focused Offense? Is it to make a tank into an mdps with less damage and more utility, similar to slotting Divine Fury on a DoK or WP? Or is it just to let tanks keep tanking but do more damage at the trade-off of taking more as well?

This is something I think that is in evidence in the tactics of many careers. Solid concepts but hampered by needing to have some sort of pve argument applied to them. While Divine Fury affected the core mechanic of the archetype turning them into pretty much a dps it also passes the pve test that your heals will also affect you less. Apply that to tanks core role mechanic guard and as guard isnt relevant to pve I believe that Mythics thinking was that made it very strong without a downside. While reducing armour does make it a choice with consequences in pve. Its this balancing of pve that makes it such a rubbish tactic because the armour loss makes use of the core mechanic worse for the tank anyway as you dont want to guard as a paper armour. Even if you spec for defence why would you waste a tactic then.

Personally Id go through every tactic and change all the ones with pve reasoning behind them to only pvp concepts.