[Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

[Azarael]

Yeah, I missed the ones that affect regeneration directly, I just queried for +/- morale.

[roadkillrobin]

Spoiler:

It is not internal. If two of three tanks give you the ability to use effects which were meant to have a high barrier to usage (M4) and the other one doesn't, then the problem is external and related to morale pump performance vs baseline morale.

Ok i'm goin off topic here coz i need to. This is the reason why BG arn't being chosen for groups that has 0 connection with morales.

AoE Snare - BO got a better one
Long Range Punts - Chosen have
Armor Debuff - BO have one
Wounds debuff - Chosen have one
Toughness buff - Chosen/Bo have for whole group.
Str buff - Chosen/Bo have for whole group.
Knockdown - BO/Chosen have one

So when you add everything that BO/Chosen have that BG don't on top of that and compare it to what BG does bring like extremly situational Outgoing Healdebuff it's just not a hard choise. BO and Chosen brings what BG have and more. Thats why they are getting shafted. It's not about Morale boost, it's about overlapping skills thats just worse then the other tanks. Morale tactic is just one more of those things. Like I said, remove the long range punt from Chosen and trade some kinda of usefull group utillity from either Bo or Chosen and you got a more valid tank choise. Remember that Chosen didn't use to have the long range punt for a long time on live. It was just another oner of those fail Biowere changes like the group cleanse tactics for DoK's.

Complete Derail; stick to discussing about Morale gain. Warning issued - Penril

[TenTonHammer]

Spoiler:

You listed everything that BO/Ch can do better than Bg or have a better version of

Being able to build morale faster is also one of those things as well

There is another thread for BGs - take it there - Penril

[roadkillrobin]

Spoiler:

You listed everything that BO/Ch can do better than Bg or have a better version of

Being able to build morale faster is also one of those things as well

Yes I also agreed that it's one of the things. but it's not the determating factor. Wich is that BG is just a bad class overall.

There is another thread for BGs - take it there - Penril

[sabat80]

Problem of that all topic is that you are looking at 1 issue with complete disconnection to any other balancing issue. I understand that you need to fix 1 thing at the time and cannot change everything but "fixing" morale bump tactics without looking at anything else is going to only dis-balance the game further.

Maybe, as a proposal, lets swap the tactics around - give choose +10% crit tactic and give KOTBS morale bump. In the same way give SW morale bump from squig and squig to receive party buff crit.

Lets play a week like that and see what feedback there is. In that way both sides can say what is better and what is balanced. And you can make a judgement what to do.

[Bozzax]

Morale bombing was bad and current lower rates make the game better > keep the reduced morale gain rate
Morale tactics that still have the old rate over performs > adjust them to the reduced rate
Other stuff is unbalanced > change other stuff

[roadkillrobin]

Ok so I did some math with having ID up 20 sec every minute vs having excelled crit rate of 30% with 100% uptime. Wich are both best case scenarios. I used 1.70 crit dmg as it's good middle gound between 1.40 and 2.60.

I calclulated this by doing 2 hits for 100 every second for 60 seconds.
30% crit is effectivly 21% dmg increase.

Base dmg without any modifers: 100dmg x 120 hits = 12000 dmg
Base dmg with crit modifier: 121dmg x 120 hits = 14400 dmg
Crit Dmg vs ID: 121dmg x 80hits = 9680 dmg + 30,25dmg x 40 hits = 1210 (total 10890)

So for this example destro will do roughly the dmg without any modifiers
While order will have the crit modfiers 100% up. As you see here the difference is quit big at 2400 dmg or 21% from the crit tactics. When we add the 20 seconds of ID on the Destruction Defences the order dmg shrinks to almoast 10890 wich is pretty close to the 12000 dmg deals.

As you see with these caclultaion is that having acess to ID on "cooldown" and having 30% static excelerated crit rate pretty rewards the simular ressault. And that havn't even counted for the healing that the crit tactics do. When you take that into consideration i'm pretty sure the difference is pretty close to to none. And the fact that Destruction doesn't have acess to ID at thee start of the fight and starts as the underdog should ballance these things out.

[sabat80]

Problem is if you are going to nerf morale bump for destro, order will get even more edge than they have today. If you want to change that you need to give them something or destro will just quit.

I understand that issues should be changed one by one but just nerfing one side without giving them something back is stupid and will drive people away from that project.

[bloodi]

-I totally disagree with that. Here's the reason:

When you fighting on open field, most of the fights ends in 30-40 seconds. That means everyone relying on "early morales" which destro lacks.

Your post shows exactly why this should be nerfed, first you nitpick a situation where "order wins" because they have all those m2 at the 30-40 seconds mark, which is fairly impossible considering that currently no order tanks have a morale pump and with one you will reach m4 before the ones without it will reach m2.

Then your output of damage is based on order having 13 (8 tanks 4 bw 1 sw) people using their morale and destru somehow are only able to field 10 (8 tanks 2 marauder), that alone is a show that you are not really willing to paint a equal view here when just adding 3 marauder would make the damages equal at 8400 but i guess that didnt help your point at all.

But lets leave that aside for a second and think about what you are stating with the "early morale dump" situation, you are justifying Destruction having an advantage, a clear one being able to pop m4 on cd, because order has a window where they can dump m2 on you.

Order has a window to kill you in a specific time frame so that makes you having the upper hand after that completely fine.

I guess i dont really have to explain how flawed a balance is when it relies on one side having a small time frame to kill and the other has the upper hand for the rest of the fight, making one side a one trick pony.

[sabat80]

Ok so I did some math with having ID up 20 sec every minute vs having excelled crit rate of 30% with 100% uptime. Wich are both best case scenarios. I used 1.70 crit dmg as it's good middle gound between 1.40 and 2.60.

Spoiler:

I calclulated this by doing 2 hits for 100 every second for 60 seconds.
30% crit is effectivly 21% dmg increase.

Base dmg without any modifers: 100dmg x 120 hits = 12000 dmg
Base dmg with crit modifier: 121dmg x 120 hits = 14400 dmg
Crit Dmg vs ID: 121dmg x 80hits = 9680 dmg + 30,25dmg x 40 hits = 1210 (total 10890)

So for this example destro will do roughly the dmg without any modifiers
While order will have the crit modfiers 100% up. As you see here the difference is quit big at 2400 dmg or 21% from the crit tactics. When we add the 20 seconds of ID on the Destruction Defences the order dmg shrinks to almoast 10890 wich is pretty close to the 12000 dmg deals.

As you see with these caclultaion is that having acess to ID on "cooldown" and having 30% static excelerated crit rate pretty rewards the simular ressault. And that havn't even counted for the healing that the crit tactics do. When you take that into consideration i'm pretty sure the difference is pretty close to to none. And the fact that Destruction doesn't have acess to ID at thee start of the fight and starts as the underdog should ballance these things out.

And all of those calculations show that is it similar result and are done based on 1.7 crit dmg, what is showing lower crit damage than it should be as it is definitely not a middle ground between 1.4 and 2.6