Return of Reckoning

Black fire Basin and Maw of Madness \o/ WOOT!

Amazing job as always. Any progress on scenarios balancing? ( 10 vs 10 ) or is that low priority?

Grolar wrote:Amazing job as always. Any progress on scenarios balancing? ( 10 vs 10 ) or is that low priority?

10 vs 10? Why?

Jail wrote:

Grolar wrote:Amazing job as always. Any progress on scenarios balancing? ( 10 vs 10 ) or is that low priority?

10 vs 10? Why?

10 vs 10 would mean less double premades I suppose.

You would either get a full + pugs, or a full + partial premade, which is an interesting idea I guess.

Not big on it myself but it's interesting to think about.

now all the sc take 15 minutes to finish, cause nobody focus in objetives and kills dont count in global score, very bad idea, if a thing work dont touch it.

perche wrote:now all the sc take 15 minutes to finish, cause nobody focus in objetives and kills dont count in global score, very bad idea, if a thing work dont touch it.

Here's a hint for you.

Don't try to bullshit me when I stated very clearly in the patchnotes that I'm logging the duration of all the scenarios.

And don't ignore that only certain SCs are being pushed to more objective-based handling and that I'm not done refining them.

That kind of **** annoys me very quickly.

Averages:

Classical

Nordenwatch: 6 minutes
Doomfist Crater: 6 minutes
Maw of Madness: 6 minutes
Gromril Crossing: 10 minutes

Objective-based

Black Fire Basin: 7 minutes
Stonetroll Crossing: 10 minutes
Logrin's Forge: 11 minutes
Phoenix Gate: 13 minutes

There are clear problems at the moment which need to be solved. As such, I intend to instate the following changes:

- Scenarios last 16 minutes. Over the last minute, the teams will receive points to scale their scores up until the winning team reaches 500 at the end of that minute. This is so that objective-based scenarios will drop loot and the rolls will be able to complete.

- As an extension of the above, any win on any scenario will be treated as a full win.

- Kills in objective-based scenarios will be completely devoid of reward (at the moment they pay out XP/Renown which is claimed at the end of the game, scaled by score.) Instead, the scenario win reward will behave as if each player of the enemy team has been killed a certain number of times proportional to score. This is being done because I hadn't realized that the base rewards for winning a scenario were such garbage. Kill rewards need to be removed from objective-based scenarios because the teams are still incentivized to farm renown rather than play the objective, especially if one team is stronger than the other.

- Tracking will be added to make sure that idlers aren't able to exploit the above.

- Win rewards will be scaled by the average length of a scenario plus a certain time factor (to represent wait time between scenarios), such that scenarios which are longer on average will pay out more.

At this point i don't even know how to say this without getting a negative reaction:

If making the effort to fight yields NO rewards "Kills in objective-based scenarios will be completely devoid of reward" then the FUN and POINT of scenarios is GONE, it's just GONE.

Good action in RvR is sporadic and you have to be in the right place/time constantly to get it, i played Scenarios for GAURANTEED good action at ANY time of day which is what Scenarios are patently supposed to be good for, the element of killing in Scenarios is FUNDAMENTAL to it's dynamic/purpose and the nature of that element is changing.

The FUN/POINT of Scenarios is the ENDLESS promise of fighting ACTION.

I can get x/r and item drops elsewhere, emblems are the only unique drops in Scenarios and you only need/want a finite amount of them and then there is no point getting them anymore.

If i want to drop-grind/roleplay i'll do public quests.

*braces for impact*

You can still kill people in them mate.

Dresden wrote:At this point i don't even know how to say this without getting a negative reaction:

If making the effort to fight yields NO rewards "Kills in objective-based scenarios will be completely devoid of reward" then the FUN and POINT of scenarios is GONE, it's just GONE.

If i want to grind/roleplay i'll do public quests.

*braces for impact*

Yeah I've been following your complaints through this thread, and I've been totally ignoring them for a very simple reason:

The damn scenario doesn't stop being about killing just because there are no direct rewards for the act of killing.

Objective scenarios still reward superior skill at killing, because you're fighting over an objective. If you can't defeat the enemy, you can't assume control over the objective or at the very least, your force is weakened. The difference is that objective-based scenarios have the potential to reward being objective-focused and playing as a team more than deathmatch ones.

The idea behind any kind of objective-based gametype is to use the objectives to direct the flow of the battle. The difference between objective scenarios and deathmatch ones is that in DM, killing is both the MEANS and the END. In objective scenarios, killing is the MEANS by which you accomplish a different END (completing the objective).

I'm astounded that I even need to explain this and I was trying my best not to, but your righteous indignation has finally gotten the better of my patience.

Azarael wrote:
- Kills in objective-based scenarios will be completely devoid of reward (at the moment they pay out XP/Renown which is claimed at the end of the game, scaled by score.) Instead, the scenario win reward will behave as if each player of the enemy team has been killed a certain number of times proportional to score. This is being done because I hadn't realized that the base rewards for winning a scenario were such garbage. Kill rewards need to be removed from objective-based scenarios because the teams are still incentivized to farm renown rather than play the objective, especially if one team is stronger than the other.

- Tracking will be added to make sure that idlers aren't able to exploit the above.

- Win rewards will be scaled by the average length of a scenario plus a certain time factor (to represent wait time between scenarios), such that scenarios which are longer on average will pay out more.

I have 2 questions.

1) Are you considering increasing the base rewards for winning a scenario (since they are, like you mentioned, garbage).

2) Have you considered the possibility of giving bonus rewards to the winning team in a objective-based SC if they finish the SC under a certain time threshold? Example: Phoenix Gate lasts on average 13 minutes (to me, that clearly means no one is capturing the enemy flag). So if one side gets to 500 points in, say, 8 minutes, they gain extra rewards? This way, people will REALLY focus on doing the objectives (=SCs end faster, =less spawn camping, hopefully).

edit: Just wanted to say, our premade did a lot of SCs last night and no one really paid attention to the rewards we were getting (no one cared, i dare say). We were having a lot of fun in the new SCs (Maw of Madness being one of my new favorites). People should try to focus on having fun instead of just focusing on the "carrot".