2H and s/b tanks - defence/dps comparison

[Tankbeardz]

Well, I am a 2H IB. Always will be for a very simple reason (outside of looks) :

2H tanks actually get targeted a lot. We can't have as high defenses as SnB, but the fact that we go 2H is a psychological PvP taunt. I want the enemy to target me and they do. I crave all the pressure they can dump, cause if they dump it on me, my team is in good shape.

To me, psychological effects like that, trump mathematical arguments in a game of people.

A lot of people assume 2H to be squishy, which is a false assumption. They are squishier then SnB, but not by that much if specced right. I think that was Annaise's point. And some of the value you gain for being a tad bit squishier is actually getting targeted even by non-complete retards. And that, on top of more damage, has a lot of value in small/medium scale PvP.

This holds true for some classes. SM, IB, Chosen, can tank guard damage effectively in 2h spec. What these classes all have in common are parry buffs that aren't tied to a shield(or in BG's case locked away 11 points into a useless tree). Blorc, BG and Knight, are unable to tank guard damage effectively with a two hander. Of course they can spec defensively and slot things like toughness/armor talis but at that point its why not just go SnB and spec offensively.

1. Runefang
2. Vigilance

[Eathisword]

Spoiler:

Well, I am a 2H IB. Always will be for a very simple reason (outside of looks) :

2H tanks actually get targeted a lot. We can't have as high defenses as SnB, but the fact that we go 2H is a psychological PvP taunt. I want the enemy to target me and they do. I crave all the pressure they can dump, cause if they dump it on me, my team is in good shape.

To me, psychological effects like that, trump mathematical arguments in a game of people.

A lot of people assume 2H to be squishy, which is a false assumption. They are squishier then SnB, but not by that much if specced right. I think that was Annaise's point. And some of the value you gain for being a tad bit squishier is actually getting targeted even by non-complete retards. And that, on top of more damage, has a lot of value in small/medium scale PvP.

Cant agree more, HOWEVER, the majority of tanks dont build like we do... they max STR, get crit on renown and run minimal toughness and wounds.
...

Maxing strength is relative. In my current build, with my buffs and my renown in strength and parry, I have 785 strength, 785 toughness and 50% parry. I run all strength talis and jewels. I don'T see how a tank could run minimal toughness to get more strength or crit... If you go below 700 toughness, you are just badly geared... as I don't see how any tank could get past 830ish strength anyway (except knights #runefang powa !). If it is possible to go higher... please tell me how... I wanna try :p

[peterthepan3]

Spoiler:

Well, I am a 2H IB. Always will be for a very simple reason (outside of looks) :

2H tanks actually get targeted a lot. We can't have as high defenses as SnB, but the fact that we go 2H is a psychological PvP taunt. I want the enemy to target me and they do. I crave all the pressure they can dump, cause if they dump it on me, my team is in good shape.

To me, psychological effects like that, trump mathematical arguments in a game of people.

A lot of people assume 2H to be squishy, which is a false assumption. They are squishier then SnB, but not by that much if specced right. I think that was Annaise's point. And some of the value you gain for being a tad bit squishier is actually getting targeted even by non-complete retards. And that, on top of more damage, has a lot of value in small/medium scale PvP.

Cant agree more, HOWEVER, the majority of tanks dont build like we do... they max STR, get crit on renown and run minimal toughness and wounds.
...

Maxing strength is relative. In my current build, with my buffs and my renown in strength and parry, I have 785 strength, 785 toughness and 50% parry. I run all strength talis and jewels. I don'T see how a tank could run minimal toughness to get more strength or crit... If you go below 700 toughness, you are just badly geared... as I don't see how any tank could get past 830ish strength anyway (except knights #runefang powa !). If it is possible to go higher... please tell me how... I wanna try :p

What gear are you using for that? As a BO I can't seem to get such high strength and toughness atm without sacrificing something else I need.

[TenTonHammer]

I think that they fact that hes a IB, kinda plays a big role in that, being able to buff every stat under the sun from WS to armor

Their is a reason IB is cosidred the best 2H tank to the extent that its actually just as viable to take a 2H ib over an SnB one the fact that your already naturally tanky too helps

then you can either get oath bound to increase you parry even more to just taking grumble and mutter so you can 1 v 2 or even 3 people at once

[Eathisword]

[

What gear are you using for that? As a BO I can't seem to get such high strength and toughness atm without sacrificing something else I need.

TL/DR
3 pieces ruin / 2 pieces annihilator.

Useless Explanation
There is 3 stats I badly want : toughness/strength/wounds. Using 2 sets, lets me pick pieces that have all 3. Only Anni helm and ruin gloves don't have wounds. When i get ruin helm, all pieces will have all 3 stats (except helm, missing strength... the least important imo). Then you have +55 and +62 toughness sets bonus + the ruin 640 armor bonus (it is roughly a 440 armor increase from full annihi/mercenary which eats big time in armor debuff). All talis in strength, all jewels too. I will use waraxe of light (elf influence, missing 3k...) it has base 44 strength, 72 toughness and 24 initiative. Then it is renown 20 parry / 20 strength.

Basically, I evaluate all piece by adding strength and toughness. The one that gives me the most of those, I use. As long as it keeps me above 7500 health...

Side note
Annihilator is much better stats wise then mercenary (if your goal is to min/max strength and toughness) as mercenary only nets you 34 more strength and 27 WS for a 73 toughness loss. Considering 27 WS is about 1-2% penetration... it is an easy choice imo.

@Tentonhammer : most tanks can buff all their stats. Armor, WS, toughness, crit, strength, resist. I'd change my WS buff for corp damage on vengeance ability or runefang tactic any time :p

And against any decent opponent, them blessing buffs get purged/Severed more often then not, so you have to mask them with useless buffs (i.e. use toughness/armor buff first if you run toughness/armor pots, so your strength/parry buffs last more then 6 seconds...) and manage all that crap...

Oh, and although I don'T claim to be among the good/best players, 1v2 and 1v3 or more require a little bit more thought/work then just speccing Grumble and Mutter. Otherwise, IB would be just as popular as pew pew AM

[Gachimuchi]

1. Runefang
2. Vigilance

240 weapon skill is equivalent to about 5% parry versus guard damage.

As for vigilance, going 13 points into a tree that you can't even make full use of is kinda laughable.

[Tankbeardz]

1. Runefang
2. Vigilance

240 weapon skill is equivalent to about 5% parry versus guard damage.

As for vigilance, going 13 points into a tree that you can't even make full use of is kinda laughable.

I guess I'm laughable then...I never had any issues. The KD is garbage too...right?

[Dabbart]

Since when do tanks not make full use out of the vigilance tree...

10% crit tactic, 15% parry tactic, KD, Vigilance, and points in the tree increase our Toughness Aura...

Wtf are you smoking?

And Runefang is awesome due to Ws and Ini for alot of tanks. Higher parry, higher dodge, and less chance to be critted. It just depends on your build.

[peterthepan3]

[

What gear are you using for that? As a BO I can't seem to get such high strength and toughness atm without sacrificing something else I need.

TL/DR
3 pieces ruin / 2 pieces annihilator.

Useless Explanation
There is 3 stats I badly want : toughness/strength/wounds. Using 2 sets, lets me pick pieces that have all 3. Only Anni helm and ruin gloves don't have wounds. When i get ruin helm, all pieces will have all 3 stats (except helm, missing strength... the least important imo). Then you have +55 and +62 toughness sets bonus + the ruin 640 armor bonus (it is roughly a 440 armor increase from full annihi/mercenary which eats big time in armor debuff). All talis in strength, all jewels too. I will use waraxe of light (elf influence, missing 3k...) it has base 44 strength, 72 toughness and 24 initiative. Then it is renown 20 parry / 20 strength.

Basically, I evaluate all piece by adding strength and toughness. The one that gives me the most of those, I use. As long as it keeps me above 7500 health...

Side note
Annihilator is much better stats wise then mercenary (if your goal is to min/max strength and toughness) as mercenary only nets you 34 more strength and 27 WS for a 73 toughness loss. Considering 27 WS is about 1-2% penetration... it is an easy choice imo.

@Tentonhammer : most tanks can buff all their stats. Armor, WS, toughness, crit, strength, resist. I'd change my WS buff for corp damage on vengeance ability or runefang tactic any time :p

And against any decent opponent, them blessing buffs get purged/Severed more often then not, so you have to mask them with useless buffs (i.e. use toughness/armor buff first if you run toughness/armor pots, so your strength/parry buffs last more then 6 seconds...) and manage all that crap...

Oh, and although I don'T claim to be among the good/best players, 1v2 and 1v3 or more require a little bit more thought/work then just speccing Grumble and Mutter. Otherwise, IB would be just as popular as pew pew AM

Which pieces of Anni should I aim to get then for the 2pc bonus? Cheers.

[Gachimuchi]

Since when do tanks not make full use out of the vigilance tree...

10% crit tactic, 15% parry tactic, KD, Vigilance, and points in the tree increase our Toughness Aura...

Wtf are you smoking?

And Runefang is awesome due to Ws and Ini for alot of tanks. Higher parry, higher dodge, and less chance to be critted. It just depends on your build.

We're talking about 2H knight here. Where up until 9 points in the tree everything else is useless. Knight gives up too much when going two-hander and gains hardly anything. Tankbeardz is a bit biased since that's literally all he plays.