too much dmg

[Luth]

Looks like the OP, in accord with his posting history, just yelled another unconstructive, undetailed statement into the ether of the forum.
Lot's of classes in the game can do "too much damage" which can be easily healed against. When a deadly DD encounters his target he doesn't do "much damage", he just does the amount that is needed to bring the targets HP to zero in a few seconds.
I'm not even talking about faking "too much damage" in the scenario stats with auras...

[roadkillrobin]

I'm sorry but you have no idea. None of those percentage modifiers are worth jack if you don't have damage bonus to boost your damage. After all, its a percentage increase to damage. If you are hitting for 300, a 25% increase is going to make that 375. If you have a high damage bonus that allows you to hit for 500, than the 25% increase is raising that to 625. This is why heal-specced doks don't become dps doks simple by switching to dps tactics. You have to have the dps stats to go with the dps tactics if you want your dok to be a dps toon.

Its also interesting to see that you are now quoting weapon dps as an important contributor to damage while still dismissing the damage bonus contribution. It's hard to see how you can claim this when the damage bonus is invariably around 1.5-2.5 as much as the weapon dps value for a dps toon. That means the damage bonus is contributing 1.5-2.5 times more damage to an ability than the weapon dps value. After all, they always have the same multiplier. And then you quote aa damage and say how significant it is without acknowledging that about half of aa damage is due to the damage bonus term.

Damage bonus is the most significant part of damage for dps toons unless they are hitting toons that have really stacked toughness. Again, I suggest you check your sources because you don't seem to understand how damage bonus contributes to dps.

I'm not sure what you wanna say 25% dmg increase is 25% nomather if you have 0 dps bonus or 200. Thats how flat modifiers work. The big difference is that dps bonus gets mitigrated by toughness while flat % doesn't. There's also procs thats affected by it that arnt affected by dps bonus. Like Skull Thumper or Jagged Edge. DPS from weapon isn't added to dps bonus, it's added to the base dmg of abillties. Meaning it can't either be mitigrated by toughness.
I just did a test on Black Orc, were's with defensive tactics i had a dps of 200 and only by swapping tactics increased dps to almoast 400. And that with 270 str.

The main reason why you can't swap from healing dok to dps on the fly is mainly coz of mastery points. Not dps bonus.

Another test I did was removing all gear from a choppa to a point were str went down from 800 to 250. And 41% armor pen to 16% and dps went down from 700 to 500 roughly 28% weres around 10% comes from weaponskill. So around 20% in total. 550 str and 330 ws added 28% dmg. Thats about the same dps increase as Divine Fury tactic alone.

[Keyser]

DPS from weapon isn't added to dps bonus, it's added to the base dmg of abillties. Meaning it can't either be mitigrated by toughness.

ability's damage before mitigation = base value + (main hand weapon dps value + 0.45 x off-hand weapon dps value + damage bonus) x effective cast time

(effective cast time is a multiplier. Its value depends on the ability being used.)

that is the ability damage formula for melee abilities. know what you are saying before you post please.

PS: that is formula confirmed by dev team that is used in RoR

[Annaise16]

DPS from weapon isn't added to dps bonus, it's added to the base dmg of abillties. Meaning it can't either be mitigrated by toughness.

ability's damage before mitigation = base value + (main hand weapon dps value + 0.45 x off-hand weapon dps value + damage bonus) x effective cast time

(effective cast time is a multiplier. Its value depends on the ability being used.)

that is the ability damage formula for melee abilities. know what you are saying before you post please.

PS: that is formula confirmed by dev team that is used in RoR

That formula is a summary showing how the value that appears on the tooltip is calculated. Toughness should only mitigate damage from the damage bonus term. It should not reduce base damage or weapon dps contribution to damage.

The point that I have been making is that the (damage bonus - toughness mit) term is still the largest contribution to an abilities damage unless the target has really stacked toughness. For example, the highest weapon dps in game at the moment is something like 77. So the damage bonus term is contributing more to all of the abilities' damage if
(attacker's strength + melee power - defender's toughness)/5 is larger than 77, that is, the (str + mp - tou) > 385.

Now apart from toon's that are stacking toughness, most classes have a toughness value under 200 at level 40 with some of them having values of under 100. So a str + mp value of larger than around 500-600 means damage bonus is contributing more to the all of the abilities' damage than weapon dps is contributing. I think that condition is going to be a very common one.

Maybe Roadkillrobin believes that the majority of toons are stacking 600+ toughness and that is why he believes weapon dps is a larger contributor than damage bonus. I frequently check mitigation values in my combat log on the toons I'm hitting and I can't say that I've noticed these large toughness values.

[Keyser]

Somehow my previous post under the quotation disappeared. Anyways...

DPS from weapon isn't added to dps bonus, it's added to the base dmg of abillties. Meaning it can't either be mitigrated by toughness.

ability's damage before mitigation = base value + (main hand weapon dps value + 0.45 x off-hand weapon dps value + damage bonus) x effective cast time

(effective cast time is a multiplier. Its value depends on the ability being used.)

that is the ability damage formula for melee abilities. know what you are saying before you post please.

PS: that is formula confirmed by dev team that is used in RoR

That formula is a summary showing how the value that appears on the tooltip is calculated. Toughness should only mitigate damage from the damage bonus term. It should not reduce base damage or weapon dps contribution to damage.

Many terms are added up and one term has a negative sign. It does not matter if you subtract the toughness (divided by 5) from the weapon dps or dmg bonus first (commutative property).

Maybe Roadkillrobin believes that the majority of toons are stacking 600+ toughness and that is why he believes weapon dps is a larger contributor than damage bonus. I frequently check mitigation values in my combat log on the toons I'm hitting and I can't say that I've noticed these large toughness values.

The problem is that both of you are looking at two different growth rates. Roadkillrobin is considering relative growth. So for him it does not matter what your original stats are when you add 25%.

I'm sorry but you have no idea. None of those percentage modifiers are worth jack if you don't have damage bonus to boost your damage. After all, its a percentage increase to damage. If you are hitting for 300, a 25% increase is going to make that 375. If you have a high damage bonus that allows you to hit for 500, than the 25% increase is raising that to 625. This is why heal-specced doks don't become dps doks simple by switching to dps tactics. You have to have the dps stats to go with the dps tactics if you want your dok to be a dps toon.

You look at absolute growth. Ofc, it holds that 300*0,25 < 500*0,25 .

Maybe it would be the best if both of you could agree first about what you are actually trying to compare.

[roadkillrobin]

Ona dps class I totally agree on stacking dps bonus. Its their role to put out as much dmg as possible. And from the tests I made, dps bonus is about 30% of the damage.
The big chunk of damage on tanks comes from tactics and base damage. Not stacking dps bonus. However if we go back to KOTBS. Alot of their dmg comes in form of procs that arn't affected by stacking str. So a route to go there might be stacking weaponskill instead as they affect some of these procs. It also helps with Parry to proc Runefang.