Return of Reckoning

Tiir wrote:Looks like White lion is not competetiv without a no CD gap closer. So RoR is the first and maybe last Game with a gap closer on a melee DD without CD in the history of Game balancing.

Now is my chance, why complaning than u can join the fotm. Time to make a new Toon.

Over and out.

WL is anything but FOTM. It's probably one of the weaker of the MDPS classes, if not the weakest.

Also, I play another MMO, where there are gapclosers that are on short cooldowns, those cooldowns can be refreshed, and not only do damage, they root the target AND remove all movement-impairing effects on the player.

The difference is, in that game pouncing on a target will actually put you in a position where you can perform abilities on your target, and TTK isn't' so low a misplaced pounce will get you (the WL) blown up in under 2 seconds.

There's more risk to pounce than you think.

Liandel wrote:
WL is anything but FOTM. It's probably one of the weaker of the MDPS classes, if not the weakest.

lol, you can not look at this propaganda

Grobbok wrote:

Liandel wrote:
WL is anything but FOTM. It's probably one of the weaker of the MDPS classes, if not the weakest.

lol, you can not look at this propaganda

Other MDPS classes can reliably hit a CC ability and it is guaranteed to do what is described on the target within the next 1.5 seconds. WL is the only MDPS that cannot reliably time their CC with their burst, which impairs their ability to dps effectively. The key to kill a healed target or a healer is timing CC with burst, and WL is simply unable to do this due to the pet.

You can't possibly deny that, and you can't say that isn't a severe disadvantage. A WL has to rely upon other teammates to coordinate CC because they are incapable of providing it themselves on a reliable basis. It is the only MDPS with this restriction.

Grobbok wrote:but all ppl see that is something wrong with WL and his pounce relative to old war
and it is not 1v1 matter, what was at Praag siege yesterday?, so many ppl saw what WL is doing by pounce spam

Pounce functions exactly the same as it was on live, as far as I can deduce.

In fact, on "old" live, Pounce landed the WL exactly on the target AND it was spammable. Then it got nerfed and made the WL land behind the target (if they're moving) outside melee range, hence why it remains spammable.

A cooldown to pounce imo would seriously hurt wl's but it is alot more reliable here on ror then on live where if your target was slightly higher/lower then you it would consume ap and not go off.

Wl's are not in a bad state at all due to pounce being more reliable and pet speed being higher even if unreliable tho unlike other mdps killing the lion pet will reduce the wl's damage alot which is another downside.

I know currently due to not being able to change the client this cannot happen but i believe in the future making the ap cost increase when used continuously within x seconds would be sufficient enough.

Liandel wrote:
WL is anything but FOTM. It's probably one of the weaker of the MDPS classes, if not the weakest.

RoR is not WAR. WL was really strong in T3 and i have seen nothing so far in T4 that suggests it got weaker. Several WL's have told me Pounce & Fetch are working better than on live. I don't remember much about my WL on live so i can't tell, but it feels just fine on RoR.

Liandel wrote:
Other MDPS classes can reliably hit a CC ability and it is guaranteed to do what is described on the target within the next 1.5 seconds. WL is the only MDPS that cannot reliably time their CC with their burst, which impairs their ability to dps effectively. The key to kill a healed target or a healer is timing CC with burst, and WL is simply unable to do this due to the pet.

CC + Burst... like a SW using his ranged KD while the WL pounces on the target (who is unable to detaunt the WL at this point). Even if it doesn't land you exactly on him, he will be immobile for 3 secs. In the meantime the KotBS/IB use their AoE snares so the destro tanks/mdps can't reach the WL. Even if they reach you, you will be able to pounce back to an enemy tank (who is most likely in your own backline). You won't even need to do this if you are lucky and have a SM use Wings of Heaven. How many people have you killed doing this while playing with Arthem's SW?

Yes, your CC might not be reliable in 1v1 but it has been mentioned a million times that balance will be looked at from a group perspective. In this regard, Order ranged KD's make Pounce a very strong skill. I think a 5 sec CD is necessary. You can still spam it if grouped with a SM with Whispering Winds (which is on a 20 sec CD, compared to Choppas 2 minute).

Speaking of spamming, I usually hear "if you spam it you will run out of AP". They fail to mention that good WL's never spam it. In my ranged KD example, you only need to use it once in order to reach your target. Even if you don't have a ranged KD, you can time your Pounce on a healer that is mid-casting and then apply Cleave Limb (snare uncleansable by Dok). Finally, there are several ways to regen AP at this point (epic weapon proc, KotBS aura, IB oathfriend, +AP on heal from healers, etc.).

And before you accuse me of destro biased: I have played nothing but order since T4 came out (ok, i plvled my BO to 40 on PvE but haven't done RvR on destro yet). Our guild leader mains a WL. Last night was specially painful, pugging on my Engie and getting wrecked by Nydig

To add to what i said, for me the main problem is being able to pounce midair making knockbacks totally useless, a fix to this changes alot and i really hope once the balance forums open up this is 1 of the first things to change.

Penril wrote:[Several WL's have told me Pounce & Fetch are working better than on live.

I don't experience that and I had a RR100 on Live, so can compare-and-contrast rather well.

Fetch works exactly the same way, were it not for the fact that pets seem to be suffering from even more issues at the moment. Mine goes invisible at random intervals since the T4 patch, and then you have to cancel it and wait for 15s. Pounce also works the same, except that you can now pounce onto walls although for the rest we still suffer failed pounces when the ground is uneven.

I'm not complaining, but I also can't see how they function better in any shape or form.

With regards to the timing of CC, that's not an argument that is limited to 1-v-1. In all settings the WL is reliant on its pet for CC and due to buggy pathing and latency, timing of CC is therefore an issue all around for the WL. This applies less so to a SH who has a ranged pet, and thus has less worries about the position of its pet.

10 second cooldown. 1 second root on target when used.

solved.

swtor force leap functioned exactly like this.

Use Ensnare ... and profit