[PVP]Scenario balance suggestion

[Azarael]

The manager will not (and should not) attempt to form optimal groups. It should limit itself to ensuring a reasonable prevalence of required archetypes. Anything beyond that is up to the players to solve by forming groups.

[Jaycub]

The manager will not (and should not) attempt to form optimal groups. It should limit itself to ensuring a reasonable prevalence of required archetypes. Anything beyond that is up to the players to solve by forming groups.

I like this, it is the direction dota took with its MM compared to LoL. I know many people here hate MOBAS but I think at the core this issue is similar enough to compare them?

This combined with group only 6v6 ques, if those are still planned for EC and hopefully other scenarios in the future would be a huge step up from what we had on live.

People should be able to expect a casual/fun atmosphere in 12v12/18v18 scenarios, and if they want to get serious and have challenge they can form a 6 man and que up for group only scenarios. And players who want to play with friends in a casual environment can still que for 12v12/18v18. Though it would be nice to have a PUG only SC, and maybe a 12v12 group only SC as well (4 groups). Disclaimer: this is just my opinion mannnn

[Nameless]

if you run out of 2-2-2 toward 1-3-2, think how looong and unfair will be for tanks to get sc pop. Anyhting exept 2-2-2 will hurt one archetype and favoiriting other and that is not pug friendly, where this change is aimed to help...

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

if you run out of 2-2-2 toward 1-3-2, think how looong and unfair will be for tanks to get sc pop. Anyhting exept 2-2-2 will hurt one archetype and favoiriting other and that is not pug friendly, where this change is aimed to help...

I explained earlier why 2-2-2 favors mdps, but in general an equal number of archetypes hurts the most popular archetypes queue- time. I think it can be said with absolute certainty that the DPS archetypes are far more popular than healers or tanks. Soooo -> not pug friendly at all.

[Tklees]

if you run out of 2-2-2 toward 1-3-2, think how looong and unfair will be for tanks to get sc pop. Anyhting exept 2-2-2 will hurt one archetype and favoiriting other and that is not pug friendly, where this change is aimed to help...

I explained earlier why 2-2-2 favors mdps, but in general an equal number of archetypes hurts the most popular archetypes queue- time. I think it can be said with absolute certainty that the DPS archetypes are far more popular than healers or tanks. Soooo -> not pug friendly at all.

and just like in WoW tanks and healers will have shorter ques while dps will have longer ones. People who play the under utilized archetypes get rewarded. Its simple and proven to work.

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

if you run out of 2-2-2 toward 1-3-2, think how looong and unfair will be for tanks to get sc pop. Anyhting exept 2-2-2 will hurt one archetype and favoiriting other and that is not pug friendly, where this change is aimed to help...

I explained earlier why 2-2-2 favors mdps, but in general an equal number of archetypes hurts the most popular archetypes queue- time. I think it can be said with absolute certainty that the DPS archetypes are far more popular than healers or tanks. Soooo -> not pug friendly at all.

and just like in WoW tanks and healers will have shorter ques while dps will have longer ones. People who play the under utilized archetypes get rewarded. Its simple and proven to work.

Or we will have overall increased queue times when not enough tanks healers are queueing on one side.
WoW works with a larger population I suppose.

[Tklees]

I explained earlier why 2-2-2 favors mdps, but in general an equal number of archetypes hurts the most popular archetypes queue- time. I think it can be said with absolute certainty that the DPS archetypes are far more popular than healers or tanks. Soooo -> not pug friendly at all.

and just like in WoW tanks and healers will have shorter ques while dps will have longer ones. People who play the under utilized archetypes get rewarded. Its simple and proven to work.

Or we will have overall increased queue times when not enough tanks healers are queueing on one side.
WoW works with a larger population I suppose.

obviously they do. I think there are enough of each arch quing its just that they arent getting in the right balance in each SC. I rarely solo que admittedly, but sometimes there are tons of healers and next sc there are only 2 and there are a bunch of tanks. Im not saying I know all of this for sure but if we give it a try and see its increased que times it can be reverted im sure.

[Jaycub]

I think Az said something along the lines of the SC manager slowly putting less priority on group comp if the que lasts too long?

like if things are slow like NA late night it will trade off proper groups for more reasonable pop times?

[Annaise16]

The game's metrics from realm war and surveys I ran after we lost access to realm war consistently had populations of just under 30% heal archetype, with the mdps, rdps and tank archetypes each having just under 25% of the population. Some of those heal archetype toons were dps, so about 50% of the pop were dps. How is 2-2-2 an equal representation of the pop as claimed when dps make up 50% of the population? TK, you seem to be suggesting that a lot of people who are currently playing dps should reroll as healers and tanks just so we can get scen pops. I don't see that working.

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

The manager will not (and should not) attempt to form optimal groups. It should limit itself to ensuring a reasonable prevalence of required archetypes. Anything beyond that is up to the players to solve by forming groups.

I am rather with Aza. Giving pugs 2-2-2 makes them less able to compete with a premade. Having the same setup but worse comunication, gear, skill will not result in a win. Pugs would profit from more dmg to get through guard or from more heal to outlast premades. With the current quality of pug dps (combined with the missing voicecom for better assist) you cant really get through guard with equal numbers.