Omegus wrote: Sun May 24, 2020 4:31 pm
SW: bring an Assault Shadow Warrior. They are terrifying when played properly, output silly amounts of ST damage.
IBs: absolutely fine. almost on-demand outgoing heal debuff, knockdowns, a good armour debuff. A great option for the melee train guards due to the buffs they throw out.
Engi: no arguments here. One if your WB wants to magnet is fine, but you need to be able to drop whatever gets pulled in.
WH: you bring it for the morale drain
AM: Yes there are plenty of pooly specced AMs out there, but that doesn't mean the class is bad. I remember Bombling lamenting that they couldn't find any morale pump AMs for one city siege WB... plenty of AMs, just none willing to respec. This is a player issue, not a class issue.
No offense but you have no idea what you're talking about and it's clear you've never played Order to even a medium rank.
SW: MSH does similar ST damage but it also has tons more survivability, mobility, AOE, CC and utility.
IB: BGs outgoing debuff actually is spammable, not "almost on-demand." BGs have a longer duration KB if they're shield spec. A lot of IB buffs do not stack, and while useful, are not as good as you seem think they are. IB have no real AOE either unlike the BG.
WH: WE has the same Morale drain, only its compounded with all of Destros morale builders and drains which were never mirrored for some reason, despite Zealots/MSH/Shaman/Marauders/BOs outright stealing abilities and tactics from their Order counterparts with nothing granted in return
AM: AM morale builder is trash compared to the Shaman's. Unless you stack -build time to unreasonable levels and sacrifice literally all your movement and action to pump, and have another AM to pump with you, this morale yields almost nothing for a warband except in extremely rare cases or situations where you have 20-30 seconds of idle time *in combat.* AM morale builder also requires spec points, every single Shaman will have the option to go pump.
Greenbeast wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 5:53 pm
You've forgotten 30% self healing buff on WP and 15% healing buff on the kotbs and the fact that you can run 15% outgoing heall debuff on Kotbs. So no a single Chosen aura is t disabling your potential healing.
As for M2 every tank that uses M2 can't bomb you. Since good and not Warbands run 2h tanks they will be out of sinc or a warband must wait for them. Most of them will use raze that can be interrupted or syphoned.
In 2018-2019 any destro warband that would go out without a dps zealot and marauder would have been burned to ashes with morale drop of 7 bws. I haven't seen you complaining. You've just played the meta with overstacking bws and destruction was forced to get an unpopular DPS zealot and bring a couple of marauders to be able to compete.
You need an AM. It's hard to find but it's meta.
It's 20% and requires a defense. So it typically won't be up in the first few seconds of engage unless you sacrifice positioning. Bad Destro will trigger WP defenses with no payoff. Better to avoid hitting WP unless you intend to train them and set them back. Likewise heal output isn't the only limiting factor in WP/DOK heals, and both have over 5-6 tactics that boost survivability/healing/regen to some degree. Exalted Defenses does not stand out at all other than the "high" people get from seeing big silly numbers.
Focused Mending requires you slot a garbage, nerfed aura and a tactic slot. Decent, but not exceptional.
Knight outgoing heal is a ghetto version of Chosen debuff. Healers are rarely clumped up in a 30 foot range but AOE targets are by definition clumped up in a Chosen's 25% debuff range. Knight debuff is just a ghetto version of BG debuff and unlike Destro, Order does not have an M2 that removes 90-95% of all heal debuffs as well as almost all DoTs and debuffs from all opposing DPS. Also unlike Destro, Order does not have a covenant that constantly spams a curse that masks heal debuffs. Nor does it have a outgoing heal debuff proc on a viable/meta DPS class.
If you're suggesting pump AMs, it's clear you've never played Order to any respectable level. Unlike Shaman, AM have to plant (as the lowest survivability class in the game) and spam a 2s cast that will just overheal someone 90% of the time. It's not good for morale bombing at all unlike the Sham version which can get multiple people to M2 in less than 10 seconds.
As for the much vaunted "BW bomb" rSH with Shaman can get to m2/m3/m4 faster while kiting BWs to death. Marauders can likewise drop 1200 morales, where 2-3 Maras is enough to perma lock all said BWs at 0 morale. This is the real, actual l2p issue. Wizard M2 bomb was never a real balance issue anywhere and merely illustrates Destro entitlement and bad theorycrafting.