Overarching balance changes

[Lileldys]

before this comes next: the ingame character window armor stat tooltip must show 100% for the 75% cap, that means you need 4400 armor for the cap, not 3300 like the window suggests.

How valid is this? I'm fairly certain that my tank mitigates for 75%.

Armor
Armor reduces physical damage (melee and ranged non-magical) by a percentage. There is no cap total mitigation %. Formula to calculate reduction:
dps_reduced% = (armor * 0.909) / level

Example:
256 armor at level 20 will reduce how much damage?

256 * 0.909 / 20 = 11.6%

So with this formula, 3300 * 0.909 / 40 = 74.99%

[Haojin]

.

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

before this comes next: the ingame character window armor stat tooltip must show 100% for the 75% cap, that means you need 4400 armor for the cap, not 3300 like the window suggests.

How valid is this? I'm fairly certain that my tank mitigates for 75%.

Armor
Armor reduces physical damage (melee and ranged non-magical) by a percentage. There is no cap total mitigation %. Formula to calculate reduction:
dps_reduced% = (armor * 0.909) / level

Example:
256 armor at level 20 will reduce how much damage?

256 * 0.909 / 20 = 11.6%

So with this formula, 3300 * 0.909 / 40 = 74.99%

Very interested in this as well. I was under the assumption 3300 was the cap too...

And with all this trolling and "weirdly" supported arguments(take that as you will) Those Balance Forum's will need TK and Penril to get active again... Y'all are gonna be busy.

[kweedko]

Spoiler:

Hu?
Again? Contradictions?
I made an example that WEs/WHs could stack high resistance mitigation with a 75% resistance cap on the light armor type, as suggested in the quote. That buff is not needed. As well as any buffs to melee DDs in general.
Maybe you want to read it again.

And your answer to a range DD meta in RvR (dunno if it exists atm or some unfounded assertion as usual) is it, to buff that meta further...

And Contradictions again it's gonna be rdd buff or melee dd buff, choose one. I see melee buff vs cloth and mage buff vs heavy armor and damage nerf vs cloth and slightly up for everybody vs medium armor.

And again: no contradictions.
My point was/is that a cloth armor class has virtually nothing to loose from a 25% armor cap, except when they stack armor talis, but even then it's questionable:
iirc conqueror armor value is 1100 which = 18.75% physical damage mitigated
plus: ~500 armor pot (could be also a bit more, doesn't really matter) = 27.27 physical damage mitigated
minus: the armor debuff from the melee train or SW/SH = ~1000 to 1800
minus: 25% - 50% armor penetration through weaponskill

What's left should be way under the 25% cap; probably even with armor talis stacking, the cap shouldn't be scratched vs serious enemies.

Same for the medium armor
Conqueror armor value is 2200 = 37.5% physical damage mitigated
with 500 armor pot = 46.02% physical damage mitigated
with the enemies weaponskill and armor debuffs factored in, also way under the 50% cap.

All what's left is a definite nerf to the tank archetypes resistances, and a possible resistance buff to classes who wear medium and light armor.
The WH in my (oh so contradictorily) example would then loose nothing from this change, but could get a possible buff.
A buff that is absolutely not needed.
The class is a caster/backline killer because of the stealth and burst it can deliver, not because it's "tankyness" vs casters.
But as i wrote, this was just an example. There is also no indication that medium armor needs any buff at all.

There is still no evidence delivered that this change would be good for the game or why it is needed at all.
And "tanks are too hard to kill for my DPS zealot" is no evidence.
But i think we had the evidence topic already on the bugtracker. Good to see some progress.

The next time i post to any balance topic will be in the balance subforum with it's extended rules for some quality discussion.

P.S:
before this comes next: the ingame character window armor stat tooltip must show 100% for the 75% cap, that means you need 4400 armor for the cap, not 3300 like the window suggests.

Like someone in clear mind don't get any armor tali, like everybody got free 50% armor pen, like everybody got 1600 armor debuff or WL a new META now.

WH WE don't need a buff cuse they what overdps and overkill your SLAYER, BACKLINE KILLER you say frog you 2WH 2 tank 2heal premade annigilates everyting that they can reach.

So 50% armor cap for medium is BUFF for you shure. and Percentage of +/- is DEBATABLE.(btw it's engi dmg buff you all that wanted cause they benefit both magic and physical dmg)

AND the main thing TTK for tanks atm IS INSAIN(on of they was more squishy) no counterplay against tonns of them except other tank zerg atm you can delete all classes from the game an left only tanks and WP/DOKs and nothing change for RVR not in a bit all those moral pushes and waithammer defhammer back and forth runhammer with nobody killing noone. And what about my Zeal if i played what class something changed for my opinnion, i got all of them on off 80+ and what i still got that thought about balace from the times of off, it's like zeal only caster in this game. And who said they can keep same armor numbers on sets.

Dev already forged up with balace like nerf of all SW specs except macaroni shooting one. Like t3 set anni in t4. Like enormous surv for tanks and guarded targets for 40/40 ranks, pet's hiting like a TRUCK 700 crit's from cat, constantly 500 hits form turrets(and what my best skill hit like 700-800 on 2 sec cast, one turret anigilate me in 8 sec, wh killing my char in 2 hit's WL the same never been like that on off(i got hits here like 70+ chars in discent gear pwning me and my dmg like im in t3 bisede broken distrup 3 out of 4 distrup like i told you(want to check go roll a zeal and try and make a bugtrack be usefull not harmfull) but you not even a dev you just a grumpy dwarf who closed the bugtraks before anybody can read them) there is already broken game and if you not noticing this you blind and rolling another OP class who killing the game atm)

And im not the only one here who like this idea and all you talking here is about cleance and guard which worked prfectly fine.

Like this change touch only my FROGING ddzealot (who don't even have Mirror Of Madness skill woking after a 2 years of developing and who give a frog definitely not dev who so obseesed with 4M are OP 10 sec OP LAWL) char in this entire game.

WAR is ALL ABOUT KILLING IS FUN and nobody dies nowdays what FUN is that.

[Arteker616]

best balance change for scs:

disable the group ques .
why?.
1- save alot of drama .
2- no more nerf cry when pugs get romper stomper mode by organized class combos .
3- healthy for server. bet you all casual scum would be happy.
4- it will teach the pugs to either team work or bust .

/clap

Best troll post I have read for awhile.

was made with some fun in mind but im deadly serious , in regard the best balance in scs would be disable the group ques
i guess the six pack lobby would get realy pissed but with the current meta game where scs do not help any realm . it would be best .
most of the complains about so called in game mechanics come from the six pack .after reading most suggestion i just see arguments wich benefeit that kind of meta game . wich being honest most times is run in sc .

[Jaycub]

Nerfing softcaps while destro and order have such an imbalance in terms of morale gain (much faster access to things like ID), and morale types in general (1001, eye of tzeenth, carapace, etc....) seems like it would mess a lot of things up. At least I think it is widely accepted that destro's main advantage over order is that of mitigation.

And we are coming full circle with the idea to nerf magic damage, a change that might help ORvR but do even more to cement the melee train meta in 6v6 / scenarios. And what of the softcap for medium robe classes like WP/DOK? Will changes to phy damage reduction softcaps not further the WP/DoK dominated healing meta?

I am surprised at the amount of outrage over changes to guard because it might delegitimify the role of the tank, yet people want to change their role as frontline in ORvR? Not sure what's going on here.

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

best balance change for scs:

disable the group ques .
why?.
1- save alot of drama .
2- no more nerf cry when pugs get romper stomper mode by organized class combos .
3- healthy for server. bet you all casual scum would be happy.
4- it will teach the pugs to either team work or bust .

/clap

Best troll post I have read for awhile.

was made with some fun in mind but im deadly serious , in regard the best balance in scs would be disable the group ques
i guess the six pack lobby would get realy pissed but with the current meta game where scs do not help any realm . it would be best .
most of the complains about so called in game mechanics come from the six pack .after reading most suggestion i just see arguments wich benefeit that kind of meta game . wich being honest most times is run in sc .

Hahaha!

See, this right here is proper Trolling. Just the right amount of criticism of "elite" players, with downgrading of ability/knowledge just begging to be argued. He(?) actually uses the insight that those posting thoughts on upgrading their play style should be outright banned from playing their style. Because they made an argument.

That's just brilliance right there. And Six Pack Lobby... hahaha!

@Jaycub, I don't believe it is the same people arguing against Guard change that want to see that ridiculous of a change to Phys/Spell damage. This thread is just brainstorming, and then picking apart said storm. I kinda like some of the thoughts in here, at least they are original!

But any idea's that actively lessen survivability in a AoE centric game will be tough to input or even begin to balance. Especially at such a lowish point in RR gear. From what I have seen, the Dev team seems to prefer smallish Tweaks to balance. But who knows?

[roadkillrobin]

Game doesn't need changes to Armor or Ressistance, it's really ballanced and the only class that benefits more from this by stacking armor is tanks wich they should have

A physica dpsl run around with something like 40-50% armor penetration

A healer like WP/DoK can stack up armor to a point were they get around 90% Physical dmg mitigraton. 35-45% Armor mitigration, that about the same vallues as buffed Ressistance

On a Tank, you can have something like 120-140% dmg mitigration wich givees you around 70-75% (Coz of cap) armor mitigration against pretty much every target. Tanks are basicly the only class that can maintain the softcap armor mitgration.

When armor talises used to be 100% more then they are now back on live this sure was a problem, but those devs caught on to that pretty fast. And scaled it down to a point were it was very ballanced.

[Gachimuchi]

First and foremost, i really don't care about your immature comments. You can continue your trolling. It's funny to see you guys you believe you're making miracles about pvp. But sadly it's not.

Secondly, we're not claiming ourselves as "invincible armada". If we get wiped, we can always shake your hands like real gentleman.

/sarcasmclosed

Last of all, we're discussing about "balance" for "everyone" . I suggest you to read the old posts. Most of the people in the thread know how to counter guard. This is not the main idea of our discussion.

You need some accessories to beat guard which originaly not implemented in the game. So you got 2 options:

1-Implement those accessories to original game.
2-Scale the guard mechanic.

When the devs release their big client modification update a possibility would be to include buff-head with the default addons.

Just because you don't like what I have to say does not mean I'm trolling.

[grumcajs]

Im still not sure if people here are just trolling so much or if they really think this mitigation ideas should happen...

there were some sentences where I was just wtf?

/sarcasm on

like:
magic classes should then focus on killing tanks - the hell? yea. so instead of dps classes trying to kill enemy dps they would just now hit tanks with capped toughness, high block chance and other tools to mitigate, reduce and avoid inc hits?

light armor cap at 25% armor mitigation - bravo!!! huge buff for engi and magus that spec for medium/close range (2 out of 3 paths). also it makes a huge sense for assault stance SW or SHs gas squigs...

buff for engi cuz they deal both physical and magical damage - again that was brilliant and well aimed note. from engi point of view I cant tell you how glad am I to see my lighting rod and other corporeal attacks would deal more damage to tanks and less damage to anything else.

when even a tank approaches the light armor casters in the back, he will now hit them MUCH harder than he does now - thats huge buff for sure. I think all tanks are very exciting about this. especially tanky support tanks. It would really make my day to see I can hit those pesky zealots for 300 dmg instead of 200. That would even make me robe-killer I think.

/sarcasm off


Just something from my pov
@th3gatekeeper :
"Guard needs better in game support. Period. Its just common sense. An animation would be HUGE. Adjusting the buff so that it goes away when not in guard range would be huge.."

- you can use buffhead and configure it to show not only debuffs and buffs but also abilties like guard etc. thus making it easier to see where the guard is.

----
I think we do not need armor/mitigation changes in full scale or any other balance change in common to be all classes wide. I would rather see it to be more class specific or even spec based. (like grp cleanse tactic that would also reduce the armor thus not nerfing dps wp/doks survivability etc.)