Overarching balance changes

[kweedko]

Yeah since fireball is indefencable I don't think this would be a good idea. Other than that yep Stm is kinda right if you are a dd with guard and heal you enter close to god mode if you don't have guard and instead a dd on your side you are the first meal for the enemy.

Edit: Having said that I don't think this is close to possible to do you would have to take a look at well everything. So BW which kill a tank within seconds shouldn't be a thing the list of changes for the classes would be endless.

Ugh FIREBALL was a metaphor for any magic damage skill AND TANKS DON'T DIE IN SECONDS(but killabele with good focus of mages not like now the just go away under enormous presshure(only moral push can kill them)) cause of that they still got their TOUGNESS BLOCK DISTRUPT there gonna be viable skills and tacts VS MAGIC damage not used atm, the squishi cloth got some surv VS magic users and medium armors lost some surv vs melee cause under guard they unkillable ATM. All magic damage melee users like SM KTOBS CHO got their up for their magic damage spec vs the tanks. This is could work, atleast this changes ballance for everyone in game. Heck maybe even the guard not gonna be so OP with this changes, cause tank gonna be not so unkillable like now.

[Valfaros]

Yeah since fireball is indefencable I don't think this would be a good idea. Other than that yep Stm is kinda right if you are a dd with guard and heal you enter close to god mode if you don't have guard and instead a dd on your side you are the first meal for the enemy.

Edit: Having said that I don't think this is close to possible to do you would have to take a look at well everything. So BW which kill a tank within seconds shouldn't be a thing the list of changes for the classes would be endless.

Ugh FIREBALL was a metaphor for any magic damage skill AND TANKS DON'T DIE IN SECONDS(but killabele with good focus of mages not like now the just go away under enormous presshure(only moral push can kill them)) cause of that they still got their TOUGNESS BLOCK DISTRUPT there gonna be viable skills and tacts VS MAGIC damage not used atm, the squishi cloth got some surv VS magic users and medium armors lost some surv vs melee cause under guard they unkillable ATM. All magic damage melee users like SM KTOBS CHO got their up for their magic damage spec vs the tanks. This is could work, atleast this changes ballance for everyone in game. Heck maybe even the guard not gonna be so OP with this changes, cause tank gonna be not so unkillable like now.

Just not true as I said fireball and ps is undefendable (no block, no disrupt +disrupt actually helps you melting them because you can even go and give a tank dots every now and then to get the instant) with moral 2 of a bw you can roast them pretty quickly. Not kidding bo's die actually within seconds if attacked by a BW only chosen last longer due to their high resistance and even then without heal they can go down pretty quickly.

Edit: Thoughness really doesn't matter much for big hits if I hit the BO with 1.9k or 1.6k doesn't really matter they melt away anyway.

[kweedko]

[
Such fundamental game design decisions need to be decided before the game is developed.
This is pretty much the system from TESO. You can't just change that in a "completed" game without any major and high likely negative impact, e.g. WEs/WHs stacking resistances and become virtually immune against caster damage.

Furthermore this game is centered around massive RvR while scenarios/small scale PvP is an addition.
Changes like these would probably lead to some weird "caster-meta" in the open RvR, where it would be more effective to nuke each other from afar.

And again you talking contradictions WE OP vs cloth(but this is their destiny in this game and in lore) and after that caster-meta(they got own enemy physical RDD and melee) it's like saying rock is meta in rock-paper-scissors. Besides this there is alredy RDD meta in ORVR 90% of order DD is RDD, things already gone nuts here.

[kweedko]

Just not true as I said fireball and ps is undefendable with moral 2 of a bw you can roast them pretty quickly. Not kidding bo's die actually within seconds if attacked by a BW only chosen last longer due to their high resistance and even then without heal they can go down pretty quickly.

I know everyting about BW and FIERBALLS got one 90+ on OFF but M2 won't last forever and you can't kill everybody with them let's think you killed a tank and what you wasted the moral heal just ress him, but with this changes you just can't that easier kill heal cause he is you natural oponet cause of detaunt and good REZ. This can bring us new steups for grouping more diversity.

[Luth]

Spoiler:

[
Such fundamental game design decisions need to be decided before the game is developed.
This is pretty much the system from TESO. You can't just change that in a "completed" game without any major and high likely negative impact, e.g. WEs/WHs stacking resistances and become virtually immune against caster damage.

Furthermore this game is centered around massive RvR while scenarios/small scale PvP is an addition.
Changes like these would probably lead to some weird "caster-meta" in the open RvR, where it would be more effective to nuke each other from afar.

And again you talking contradictions WE OP vs cloth(but this is their destiny in this game and in lore) and after that caster-meta(they got own enemy physical RDD and melee) it's like saying rock is meta in rock-paper-scissors. Besides this there is alredy RDD meta in ORVR 90% of order DD is RDD things already gone nuts.

Hu?
Again? Contradictions?
I made an example that WEs/WHs could stack high resistance mitigation with a 75% resistance cap on the light armor type, as suggested in the quote. That buff is not needed. As well as any buffs to melee DDs in general.
Maybe you want to read it again.

And your answer to a range DD meta in RvR (dunno if it exists atm or some unfounded assertion as usual) is it, to buff that meta further...

[Akalukz]

The only argument you 2 have for that change is "because i think it would be cool". Zero evidence has been given as to why this would be a needed change or something good for the game.

I would think that an in game way of telling who is guarding whom, distance to guarded target etc without use of outside addons would be pretty self explanatory as a needed change that would be vastly welcomed by a large portion of the player base. Anytime a game developer says you have to use this outside program / software to be competitive they should rethink that. Some addons are for shits and giggles, others are pretty much necessary. Read back on some of the posts from those not wanting any changes to guard... they all suggest outside addons and outside voice com.

[kweedko]

Hu?
Again? Contradictions?
I made an example that WEs/WHs could stack high resistance mitigation with a 75% resistance cap on the light armor type, as suggested in the quote. That buff is not needed. As well as any buffs to melee DDs in general.
Maybe you want to read it again.

And your answer to a range DD meta in RvR (dunno if it exists atm or some unfounded assertion as usual) is it, to buff that meta further...

And Contradictions again it's gonna be rdd buff or melee dd buff, choose one. I see melee buff vs cloth and mage buff vs heavy armor and damage nerf vs cloth and slightly up for everybody vs medium armor.

[Haojin]

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[th3gatekeeper]

In this situation, there is a clear strategy and purpose for each class. Right now, we don't have that. Both healers and tanks are extremely hard to kill even by classes that should supposedly have an advantage against them. On the other hand, without proper support, DPS classes have very little individual survivability. They get said survivability from tanks guarding them and healers pumping absurd amounts of healing into them. It's an imbalance between archetypes that strongly favors stacking tanks and healers because they have very little counter play.

What I propose would be far from a cure-all for the problems I've laid out, but it would be a big start. There needs to be 3 different hard caps for physical and magical resistance (and in the interest of simplifying everything, all 3 magic resists should be combined into one general one. It's stupid to have 3 of them.) Heavy armor focuses on stopping physical damage, so it caps at 75% physical resist just like it does now. However it doesn't protect much from magic, so wearing it hard caps you at 25% magic resist. Reverse those for light armor/robes. Medium meets in the middle, and caps at 50% for each. Combine that with some evening out of base wounds, and that would go a long way to establishing solid fundamentals in WAR.

Honestly, this is a very good solution IMO however I am afraid it will deviate too much from the "LIVE-WAR" guys idea of re-living LIVE days...

Ive always been frustrated about the way weaknesses and strengths are handled... MDPS always feels ultras squishy and therefore requires a tank in order to not get blown up by all ranged DPS. Tanks deal zero damage - and even crappy damage against robe wearers etc.

Proposing a large change in softcap based on archtype is actually a great way to re-position strengths and weaknesses. I do like this idea.

So:

Tank Arch-type: 75% Physical Cap (same). 25% Magic Cap (reduced from 40%). Making tanks more susceptible to non-physical damage.

Medium armor classes: 50% Physical cap. 50% Magic Cap (more balanced).

Light Armor Classes: 25% Physical cap. 75% Magic Cap.



This adds a creative layer as to balance. Now the BWs can sit back and try and nuke classes but will deal considerable LESS damage than they do now against medium and light armor classes but will deal MORE damage to tanks.

This way, when even a tank approaches the light armor casters in the back, he will now hit them MUCH harder than he does now. So its a rock - paper - scissors addition to balance that frankly could put LESS emphasis on a perfect 2-2-2 comp considering it will now matter what types of damage people deal, and debuffs become even more deadly...

In fact, I might even propose bumping up the caps slightly to:

Heavy Armor: 80%/30%
Medium: 55%/55%
Light: 30%/80%

This idea is actually very exciting!

[th3gatekeeper]

The only argument you 2 have for that change is "because i think it would be cool". Zero evidence has been given as to why this would be a needed change or something good for the game.

When we play scenarios with correct setup we're winning 15-20 matches in a row agaist pugs. Of course its not only connected with "guard". There are many strong elements to make your premade strong."Guard" is the strongest for me.

It's easymode and not fun. That's why lower tier scenarios more fun for most players. This is my personal opinion i'm up for every civilized discussion and i respect all disagree opinions.

So, zero evidence ? As Viskag said before guard is only countered by "addon" "voice communication" and pure "assist" .

This is exactly right. I like playing lower tier PVP much more than T4 frankly. You get pigeon holed too much into your "META" roll by tier 4 but thats another issue.

Guard makes the biggest impact to the game. Period. 1 good tank who guards and swaps guard can literally obliterate a group of PUGs making it almost impossible to kill anyone without having your own assist train set up to nuke someone. Guard coupled with an "average" healer makes that possible. No other mechanic in the game makes that BIG of an impact. In fact, the only "counter" to guard is also something that isnt even supported in game very well: Assisting. You need to set up a macro and spam that every second on someone you trust to assist, or have voice coms...

Its why there is such a HUGE "skill gap" between a premade and a PUG group to the point that I would suggest a majority of games I play in are landslides one way or the other. Either we STOMP them because we had 2 dps assisting + me guard swapping with a good healer (or worse, a full premade). Or we get stomped because I solo or duo Qd and we cant do enough by ourselves - either losing damage or healing as we are 2 of the "holy trinity".

Guard needs better in game support. Period. Its just common sense. An animation would be HUGE. Adjusting the buff so that it goes away when not in guard range would be huge..

Assisting frankly needs better in game support too. We should have a more transparent way to see you your ally is attacking. I dont see this happening soon, but in other games you are able to click on an ally and underneath them it would show who their target is...

I still like that previous recommendation A LOT frankly: to cap resists based on armor type... That creates more of a rock paper scissors meta that adds to the class archtype meta that makes more group comps viable and also creates more interesting rolls to classes than just "DPS" as you now care more about different TYPES of dps and types of targets... the BWs wouldnt sit back and nuke other DPS classes as they would have higher resists, the BWs might focus more on the tanks which alleviates (some) assisting and the importance of guard... it creates a truer rock paper scissors...