Martok wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 4:49 pm
A lesson we all should have learned from the Core Guard Ability Change experience of 2019. Your point is simple yet elegant and I fail to understand why so many seem unable to grasp it.
What was the Core Guard Ability Change experience of 2019? I was not around for this, would like to know the context/history. Guard does seem to work differently from retail WAR. I don't remember it persisting through death, and it seems as though someone can be guarded by more than one tank simultaneously, though I'm not sure. I haven't experienced a time where guard failed to apply because someone else was already guarding.
Martok wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 4:49 pm
Yeah, agreed. However another aspect of this issue is expressed by the willingness of a certain percentage of the player-base to conform in order to insure perpetual inclusion within that certain percentage of the player-base. Meaning the stick being employed doesn't bother them.
The stick will work for some people, including me. But it could work a lot better if the skids were greased. I know it affects my choices. I've bounced around many classes for the last two weeks as I've gotten back in this game, for both Order and Destruction, trying to settle on one or a faction that I think I will stick with long-term. End-game viability is something I keep in mind, along with the fact that metas always change, and two months from now, we could have a very different situation with just a few small changes that suddenly make one class or spec a lot more desirable or beneficial in ways and places they are not currently.
I've ultimately decided on Order, and to main a tank. For many reasons:
1) Destruction has a significant population advantage, which as I described before, means they have labor surplus and can be pickier. I will have an easier time end-game getting groups and guilds on Order, especially so if I am in one of the "in need" classes/specs. Less so on Destruction where it will be more competitive, and as a new person getting back into the game, I anticipate Order side will likely be a little more willing to put up with learning than Destro where they can just pick a veteran and leave me out.
2) Destruction has a significant population advantage, which means for Order, there's it's a target-rich environment, generally speaking. Being on the underdog means faster queues for SC, more demand for services, and more targets.
3) Destruction has a significant population advantage, and generally performs better overall, which to me makes it EZ-mode. I want a challenge, and I want to make a difference. I think I am much more likely to achieve that on Order than on Destro.
4) Going Destro would make the situation worse, going Order helps. I like helping. I may just be one person, but it's a swing of 2 people (one less on Destro, one more on Order) than if I went the other way. Every little bit adds up.
5) I chose tank because I have always enjoyed it most in this game, and Order needs more tanks. In the ideal 2-2-2 composition, Tanks and Healers, together making up 1/2 of all classes, are 2/3 of the warband, so I think that'll be easier to get involved, and help out the faction. I also considered WP, and I'll probably level one up as well for variety and an alternative, even though I enjoy DoK more (so far).
Looking back at that list, some of the motivation is end-game viability, so the "stick" is playing a role in my decisionmaking, both in pushing me away from Destro and towards Order, and also int he class I chose. But ultimately I chose the class because I like the tank role and its what I enjoy most. It's additional pressure to do it, but I probably would have ended up there anyway. I also enjoy Engineer, and the stick was a factor in eliminating that choice.
It has an effect, but its not sufficient. In addition to helping Order as a faction, there could be more granular catch-up mechanics for desired or under-represented classes (like tanks and healers) to level up, gear up, and renown-up faster to fill the need, and encourage others to fill the need who may be contemplating it. That's what I mean by "Grease the skids" - people who do research like myself could look at it, weigh it all, and then choose a faster path - the one in most need. Or new players who are on the fence or unsure could be steered towards the most needed classes if the faster progression were to be known to them at character creation time.
Martok wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 4:49 pm
Which constitutes another reason I support the idea of a PUG City instance. When I see a number of SW's or WH's or Engi's or DPS AM's or AM's in any spec all standing around outside the city gates trying to find a warband and ultimately being forced to solo-que or not get in the city at all it bothers me because it gives me pause to wonder if that was truly the intent of how the system was designed.
Regarding system design...in this sort of situation where the game is carrying on in spirit long after the original game is gone, I think its important to keep in mind that many of the systems in the game were put in at a very different time and motivation for the developers. They may have had business goals or had design ideas overridden or tainted by disagreements on the team, or had ideas they were merely experimenting with, not sure how it would play out with intention to adjust. They may have made changes long ago after seeing how things play out if it resulted in undesirable or un-fun situations. They also didn't really see much long-term effects as this server has been going a very long time compared to retail WAR. We're seeing situations and player habits that have evolved long past what the original developers likely anticipated. I think the important thing is keeping with the spirit of the design philosophy and change things where necessary to make the game fun.
I'm encouraged when I see some changes to things in ROR because I think for the most part the developers working on this game understand that, but I also see a lot of caution that might affect guilds and benefits of them. Guilds are extremely sticky for any game, so it is reasonable to me to have caution for things that might result in less motivation to join a guild or less benefits from being in one or organizing. For example, if you can get mostly the same benefits from pugging as you can being in an organized group, it can negatively impact motivation and desire to do organized groups. I expect that might be why there's some resistance there.