Return of Reckoning

roadkillrobin wrote:Dunno if this is possible, but how about if you removed the healdebuff from Divine Fury and Fanticism for just healing hand??? And the same to all other healers imo.

Won't make a difference. The massive lack of Willpower means they don't have any scaling. The difference between my Healing Hand healing for 173 or 280 won't suddenly make me a viable choice.

I believe that may be why we have something like Sigmar's Shield, in the first place. It doesn't scale with Willpower, you can stack Strength until people complain and it will still heal that same amount.

Edit - Need to make my stance on that a little clearer. I'd be happy to see our core heals removed from the Tactic heal-debuff. It's asinine to make Healing Hand a core ability, and then force us to cripple it with Divine Fury and being unable to get any Willpower.

Both a proc to deal with MAD and changes to the lifetap handling would have to be mirrored to DoK.

roadkillrobin wrote:Dunno if this is possible, but how about if you removed the healdebuff from Divine Fury and Fanticism for just healing hand??? And the same to all other healers imo.

Something like that could help, although it would take more than Healing Hand to solve the problem.

We could also aim for a design where those two tactics were not always taken for lifetap healers and became part of what separated DPS WPs from melee-healing WPs.

Azarael wrote:Both a proc to deal with MAD and changes to the lifetap handling would have to be mirrored to DoK.

Agreed. DoKs are currently ahead on pure melee/DPS but they are no more viable as melee *healers* than WPs are.

Sigimund wrote:So it comes down to when the community is ready for the next change. I hate to bring mirrors into this but a big part of that will be managing the perception that one faction is being buffed and the other is not.

This is another problem. People see anything being changed and it had better benefit them or they're going to scream bias.

Buff Sorcerers? Bright Wizard's better start one-shotting people, or so help you. White Lion's with no AP costs on Pounce? Well, Marauders better get no cool-down on Charge!. Yay, fairness.

Azarael wrote:

PartizanRUS wrote:Grace WP solid at T3 ? Pfft, not a chance, go run every damn time out of enemy focus. 1h and Purple book or Salvation with 2h.

Yeah, I have to concede the point - Grace still sucks hard against anything that's not a PUG. KB+snare, Guard+high mitigation, KD or other attack-preventing CC and either you die or the other healer does instead. It's just not worth it.

this not make sense, how does a slayer survive a KD then, guard + heal mean you need to survive a 3 sec KD.

You have more armor than a choppa/slayer 100% of the time and a spambale aoe detaun. IF you die and a slayer don't it mean his party have better tanks or healers. I would understant if we talk about damages but a class that have BASE survability better than a melee and also can self heal should not have more problem stay alive than a slayer really.

It must be a party composition issue, bring a kobs and and a SM and your wp will dish spiritual damages for 5 sec every 3 sec on the channeling while your SM also debuff to 0 your target spiritual resistence.
Your armor is better than slayer /choppa , you damages bypass armor and with SM also magic resistences which is a lot better and also SM CAN TOTALY REMOVE that from the equation. Then you can have a 100% of the time updated de taunt unless someone KD you 1 sec before it end the CD. I barely see as 2h wp is not alredy op in the right party composition. It may not have the same BURST which fine cos you should top judge how a class perform due to their sc results where tanks can go more offensive cos every one take less damages while in Orvr win the day. You may want to test it in oRvR where with all these tools it's a wonderfull dps linebreaker. Do less damage but fear less healdebuff and can over heal damages.

In SC ppl run with the most burst possible which is where hybrid classes will NEVER be avaiable.
Which is way you cant balance game around 6 man but rather oRvR, it also not right make wp due fact that is both a dps and a healer incredible good in both. It also not righ tmke him unkillable as ppl want see it, it's still a dps, so choose 1/3.

Damage but low sursvability
medium damages/medium survability
Low damages but good survability.

slayer/choppa do this all the time and they are still use.

A slayer has a permanent guard and two healers backing him up. Swings and roundabouts, completely.

Azarael wrote:A slayer has a permanent guard and two healers backing him up. Swings and roundabouts, completely.

why should not a wp have a perma guard, it's not a tank it's stil la dps.

edit:

if the aoe detaunt buff was to make him be able to stay with out guard that is not something smart, as melee healer you need offensive capacity , defensive capacty and heal capacity, it will always need to have a guard.

You can dedice to just make it a stone wall that can heal with lol dps or you make it a nice dps with less damages that allow 1 x tank to spec offensive due the guard damage reduction + the aoe de-taunt. So that you have less single ppl durable in party but more medium durability with some more heals. You cannot make it

dps
tank
and healer

all in the same build. That is called paladin= aka the broken stuff by definition.

Tesq wrote:

Azarael wrote:A slayer has a permanent guard and two healers backing him up. Swings and roundabouts, completely.

why should not a wp have a perma guard, it's not a tank it's stil la dps.

We will know that lifetap healing has made it when Grace gets a healing slot (and Wrath gets DPS).

Tesq wrote:

Azarael wrote:A slayer has a permanent guard and two healers backing him up. Swings and roundabouts, completely.

why should not a wp have a perma guard, it's not a tank it's stil la dps.

if the aoe detaunt buff was to make him be able to stay with out guard that is not something smart, as need offensive capacity , defensive capacty and heal capacity, it will always need to have a guard.

You just make it a stone wall that can heal with lol dps or you make it a nice dps with less damages that allow 1 x tank to spec offensive due the guard damge reduction + the aoe de-taunt. You cannot make it

dps
tank
and healer

all in the same build.

There exist so many counters to the melee method of healing already that claiming that Grace is somehow a "healer, tank and DPS" is misleading. Do you define a tank by resilience? I don't. I define it by what it contributes to the battle. I don't see Guard, or Challenge, or spammable snares, or ST long knockback or any of the other core reasons to bring a tank. As for the DPS, those high numbers you see in pug SCs are put up in the same way that a tank puts them up - low sustained damage over a long time. I don't think that qualifies a Grace WP to be considered some kind of awesome DPS either. Lastly, ordinary heals have a casted range of 150ft, with 100ft for the group heal. If a class is going to have to heal at 5ft, it had better have the survivability it needs to ensure that it doesn't just spend all its time healing itself, not to mention that you are exposing yourself to every single debuff under the sun.

I beg to ask... have you ever actually tried playing this class?