BW: Current state

[wonshot]

While most of this is pulled out of my as* and from the past.
But I did do more than 100+ city instances back when that was the main drive in the game and my experiences on BW was that I could pugstomp most comps because thats just what the class does, it punches down not up.
Azeyune was the only WL who in order stomps could get more killdmg than me.

Whenever I faced good 6mans. Teinhalla, Advarka, Teefz. No matter the amount of crosshealing would save me the class is just too fragile (also I was getting skillgapped to some extend)
In good balanced instances on warband scale vs Tup, Ere we Go, PnP, FMJ, Gravord, BW was still a good opening target for destro to go in and attempt to trade within his killzone. That is just something, that NA instance didnt provide as Destro didnt bother about bringing resist party buffs to each group. Didnt even leave out of the same door as communication wasnt being done, didnt have a concept of backline healer pressure on top of frontline ball trading etc etc. The game and the quality of the players have just dipped dramaticly over the last few years. I do agree some of the instances in here are good examples, but thats still a racial restricted warband queueing if im not mistaken. It can work but it comes with its limitations naturally.

Some of this has changed due to direct changes to BW and/or other classes. Now the Armor shield stacking with pots help some but not a whole lot.
The build and the rotation is still the same for the fireclown and you can do amazing scores with it. Ive been standing in Reikwald and passed on crests for guildies trying to speed gear them and get 100+ dbs with just RoF potato build. Ive ran 3 kite groups of BWs with burningheads with VII fighting warbands with turn-n-burn strategies. The BW class can kinda do it all, but ill still underline that its a class that punches down, not up.
Now does it need to be a competitive class, maybe? But for how the game is being played in 2026 he is kinda the king in the kindergarden.

Ive played it in Asia primetime, EU primetime, NA primetimes. I, personally, just think its abit outdated in rotation & mobility, only has FF as skillexpression left and that the classmechanic could use more dumps and a real filler ability for aoe.

Choppa frontal dot + Stomp + Bring it on puts out more damage than a BW doing Annihilate + FB dot + FoR. Why does the BW who is already in a wheelchair need to stand still to unload, when the Choppa can push/reposition meanwhile.

[Caduceus]

Sorc and BW are very easily shut down by skilled players/groups, and even if you get a full group of players catering to your every need, the damage really isn't there to justify it.

This already was the case several years ago, and since then Sorc/BW received only further nerfs.

That's why I stopped playing, and I don't have high hopes for the RDPS rework which is the only reason I might consider returning.

[Alstragon]

It seems like BW is locked to bombing solely. And in order to do that you need a fully built composition for it to shine.

They have made a BW, a ranged caster into a melee PBAoE specialist.

This just makes the class feel incomplete. Is this Vanilla WoW where every class only has 1 viable spec? Why is that the case? Why is everything adjusted, tweaked and changed and then left in a spot that is unfun for people to play outside of a specific build?

The point of an MMO is to create your character, build them, play them as you see fit and go from there. Yes a meta often emerges but it doesn't become the 'only thing' you can do.

BW is screwed against everything, Mara, Squig, Choppa, all have charge, can break root, the only real CC a BW has, and even there, a Choppa can hit them from such a distance that the BW cannot get away. And yet, unless that BW has an entire group/wb built around them, they will be able to do nothing?

Its ridiculous imo.

[lumpi33]

While most of this is pulled out of my as* and from the past.
But I did do more than 100+ city instances back when that was the main drive in the game and my experiences on BW was that I could pugstomp most comps because thats just what the class does, it punches down not up.
Azeyune was the only WL who in order stomps could get more killdmg than me.

I fully agree with "it punches down not up". I think it is the main reason why BWs/Sorcs are so incredible hard to balance. They can blow up pugs like no tomorrow and lack against decent targets/groups. That being said, Sorcs are better at ST damage and BWs at AOE damage. They have a different skill set and are not the same.

I think the main issue with BWs/Sorcs is their mechanic. While they can get huge crits and heavy hitting single target rotations on targets without guard and resis buff, they really lack vs targets that have guard, toughness, disrupt, resis, absorbs, hots. Then their damage fades quickly and they are not good at putting constant high pressure on a target like melees can. But that's the focus that is actually needed to perform against good premades. They just don't have it.

The only way to fix that would be to rebuild these classes from scratch. Nerfing down the mechanic, removing/reducing the backlashes, reduce their cast times and allow them to actually nuke targets.

I think the core concept should be: squishy ranged caster, without much mobility or survivability but all about damage and being dangerous when left alone and being able to cast nukes while standing still. I think that would be a fair. Since they don't have the tools or pet or mobility of a SH, their nukes would have to do higher damage than a SH + pet combined. As magical caster they should especially perform well against tanks where the SH damage quickly falls off. For that they would need a debuff nuke or something to overcome heavy defenses.

I really think that this is the way to go. The current system gives tanks/healers very high disrupt/block and against dot stacking classes this is actually fine, but against THE mages in the game they should be vulnerable. DAoC did the same btw with Wizzards. They had fast nukes with built in debuffs to overcome very defensive targets. btw: RoR doesn't make a difference in disrupt calculation whether it is an instant cast or a 3 second cast. That's actually wild that you are facing the same disrupt rates after a 3s cast.

This is not a complete strategy for their overhaul, more like a vision and direction.

tldr: Their mechanic just can't be balanced right the way it is. It needs to be nerfed hard and in return they should receive casts and debuffs that allow them to fulfill their role as dangerous and squishy ranged nuker, turning them from a "punches down not up" class into something that can actually compete against organized groups.

[Sinisterror]

While most of this is pulled out of my as* and from the past.
But I did do more than 100+ city instances back when that was the main drive in the game and my experiences on BW was that I could pugstomp most comps because thats just what the class does, it punches down not up.
Azeyune was the only WL who in order stomps could get more killdmg than me.

I fully agree with "it punches down not up". I think it is the main reason why BWs/Sorcs are so incredible hard to balance. They can blow up pugs like no tomorrow and lack against decent targets/groups. That being said, Sorcs are better at ST damage and BWs at AOE damage. They have a different skill set and are not the same.

I think the main issue with BWs/Sorcs is their mechanic. While they can get huge crits and heavy hitting single target rotations on targets without guard and resis buff, they really lack vs targets that have guard, toughness, disrupt, resis, absorbs, hots. Then their damage fades quickly and they are not good at putting constant high pressure on a target like melees can. But that's the focus that is actually needed to perform against good premades. They just don't have it.

The only way to fix that would be to rebuild these classes from scratch. Nerfing down the mechanic, removing/reducing the backlashes, reduce their cast times and allow them to actually nuke targets.

I think the core concept should be: squishy ranged caster, without much mobility or survivability but all about damage and being dangerous when left alone and being able to cast nukes while standing still. I think that would be a fair. Since they don't have the tools or pet or mobility of a SH, their nukes would have to do higher damage than a SH + pet combined. As magical caster they should especially perform well against tanks where the SH damage quickly falls off. For that they would need a debuff nuke or something to overcome heavy defenses.

I really think that this is the way to go. The current system gives tanks/healers very high disrupt/block and against dot stacking classes this is actually fine, but against THE mages in the game they should be vulnerable. DAoC did the same btw with Wizzards. They had fast nukes with built in debuffs to overcome very defensive targets. btw: RoR doesn't make a difference in disrupt calculation whether it is an instant cast or a 3 second cast. That's actually wild that you are facing the same disrupt rates after a 3s cast.

This is not a complete strategy for their overhaul, more like a vision and direction.

tldr: Their mechanic just can't be balanced right the way it is. It needs to be nerfed hard and in return they should receive casts and debuffs that allow them to fulfill their role as dangerous and squishy ranged nuker, turning them from a "punches down not up" class into something that can actually compete against organized groups.

They dont need complete overhaul, they need time machine ie reverting some balance & combat formula changes. I love this Rumour(i believe it as well) that GCD change was actually kind of a favor to some RoR streamer who "Hated being time Stamped " By bw/sorc. Its funny that a change this big with obvious downfalls but zero logic. Most gamebreaking and most effect to gameplay change what RoR ever did to this game was changing GCD.