Reduce the tankiness of healers and healer hybrids

[Bozzax]

You mean having 7k hps no mitigation and trying to out position 10k bursts?

[Ysaran]

Toughness has also been significantly boosted here, compared to live.

If I’m not mistaken, then Toughness reduces the attacking stat 1/1 here on RoR, whereas on live it was 1/5.

I don't know about live, but on RoR it is 1/5

[Panzer80]

I agree.

[lemao]

I don't think healers are to tanky at all. Why should I need do be punished cause I know how to detaunt a solo dps and manage it? It sounds absoluelty absurd to nerf healers after GCD was ''fixed''. Healing is slower now, you can also add nerf on Armortalismans which also made healers less tanky.

If I as a healer get targeted by acually good dps, I will have to work for it and might need assist from my team. Unless I play my cards right and have correct specc to survive a solo dps. If you get targeted by 2 good dps, you DEF will need a tank or crosshealing even if you run BIS. A rly strong healer can die withing 2 seconds if you are getting focused by a st 6man and you are not rdy for it. I don't know what you talking about complaining on healers being 2 tanky. There is plenty of rly bad dps running around trying to stab you with wrong specc, trash gear and no experience then they get angry cause they can't kill you.

Spot on

[tazdingo]

You mean having 7k hps no mitigation and trying to out position 10k bursts?

some maps i dont get hit 100%

i dont play 6v6 because its just throwing spreadsheets at each other

[Keula]

Healers are exempt from this crucial risk-reward balance, and I have yet to hear a compelling reason for why that should be the case.

Well how would you solve it?

Currently willpower scales very poorly, which is the root cause of the problem. There's no real trade-off for stacking defenses, because willpower is such a bad stat it's barely worth considering.

As I noted in my earlier post, base healing should be reduced and willpower should be made to scale better.

The result will be less tanky healers, because like all classes they will have to invest in their primary stat. Additionally, by making willpower a stronger stat, there will be a reason for healers to stack more willpower at the cost of survivability, thus introducing risk-reward to the healer class.

So while this would be a nerf to healers, it will open up more build options for skilled healers who are prepared to forego high defenses and get greater healing in return.

By making healers less tanky overall, they will be more susceptible to harassment and focus-fire, and thus additional tactical options are opened up to break through the healer/tank safety net which in my opinion is the main benefit of this approach: more tactical options.

As to the exact numbers, I don't know. My suggestion would be to avoid rash changes.

You do know that you can get to like 850-900 willpower with only the cost of 1 tactic slot at a bis 7+2 gear right? So how can you change the scaling non-rashily if we already are that close to the softcap? I guess some non-linear scaling would do it either on WP or the abilities themselves so you'd have to run the tactic 100% of the timet, but that just sounds weird and punishing for non-bis healers.

[Uchoo]

Why is that good design. If a dps did great damage without stacking any kind of offensive stats and sacrificing durability it would be clearly imbalanced or a regen witch elf. Maybe healers are just used to having it too good compared to other mmos. Healers are way squishier in classic wow

My point is that if classes were all designed to have a good toolkit, you don't need to be absurdly glass cannon for them to function well. A great example is Slayer, which has a kit so powerful that it builds very defensively, so far as to even using the dwarf racial armor tactic at times because all it has to do is stay alive to do it's job.

If a class can't do anything without being fully glass cannon, it needs to be updated. However, I don't think that's true of a single class in the game at the moment, but some are obviously stronger than others.

[Uchoo]

That's not what I said.

What I said was stacking defenses will leave your damage gimped. Obviously even DPS must have a minimum of defenses to avoid turning themselves into a liability.

And of course, the less competitive the setting, the more you can get away with.

For example, here's my Zealot, which is BiS

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 627/armory

Here's how much mitigation I have vs a non-glass cannon Slayer while I have a White Lion Armor debuff on me.


Here's the same without Armor Talismans.




3000 armor is NOT a lot of mitigation against enemies who know what they are doing. Healers need to be able to have at least this level of tankiness to survive (which isn't much). If you are failing to kill a healer, you probably have a flaw in your comp, such as lack of armor debuff. I assumed that you're a solo player because most group players that I know don't complain about the tankiness of healers.

[Gunlinger]

Killing healers is only a problem for solo player dps, since somehow at some point detaunt on healer got changed to be running the same duration as the cooldown. That means a healer can put all his dmg dots on the dps and then just detaunt an heal away the remaining 50% of the dmg the dps does to them. In between the dps gets stunned knocked back or rooted. Had enough duells on my WH vs zealots, to just leave them be and not even engage them solo. The time frame inbetween the CC that you have to catch up while immune is just filled by their detaunt and then they restart the CC/kiting circle.

[Faction69]

Killing healers is only a problem for solo player dps, since somehow at some point detaunt on healer got changed to be running the same duration as the cooldown. That means a healer can put all his dmg dots on the dps and then just detaunt an heal away the remaining 50% of the dmg the dps does to them. In between the dps gets stunned knocked back or rooted. Had enough duells on my WH vs zealots, to just leave them be and not even engage them solo. The time frame inbetween the CC that you have to catch up while immune is just filled by their detaunt and then they restart the CC/kiting circle.

Sure but easily 50%+ of healers (even high rr ones) don't actually use detaunt, so at least trying to kill them is worth it as long as no one else is around.