Return of Reckoning

Earthcake, you did it:

That is totally the point. You even have to debuff crit with kneecapper (-20% crit chance). Oh, and the buff rotation gets even funnier when you try to uptime it to a second dps so they both get at least Oathbound and ancestors fury.

Yeah.
This is a problem that every IB after level 70 notices.
However, the basic rotation ends with 4-5 skills, 3 of which deal damage.
Later phases are the appropriate selection of the skill bar so that, depending on the situation or moment, to maximize its performance based on the maintenance of the grudge and oathfriend rotation.
You don't have to finish your 6-second rotation every time, you don't always need corp resiist + AA, which just costs 5 grudge, so it's not a very good example but you know what I mean

Personally i can keep on 3 ppl from my party 2-3 most needed skils from 6-7 you can boost on your oathfriend while still damaging/debuffing opponent. Sure not 100% mobility, mb like 40-60% but theres always that dilema to buff or do damage, which almost always doing damage wins and your oathfriend rotation being lost but yeah as i said, theres rotations depend on situations.

NOT much issue in here at all. but yeah after all just give BG 0s cd on KB. Take care.

first of all, why set base time resource to 10 second ?
you put everything inside 10 sec and claim it's too short.
and ppl fall to it. magic of math eh ?
percentage trick.

set it to 20sec and you'll see it's ok.
IB/BG mechanic is build up.
they're meant to take longer time for rotation.

during build up you're weak.
full mechanic you're stronger.
It took 20sec. faster/slower depend on player/situation.

you don't have to spam everything.
choice and focus.
set big 20sec( or 30sec ) skill as rotation mark and fill it up with smaller skills.

anarchypark wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:52 pm first of all, why set base time resource to 10 second ?
you put everything inside 10 sec and claim it's too short.
and ppl fall to it. magic of math eh ?
percentage trick.

set it to 20sec and you'll see it's ok.
IB/BG mechanic is build up.
they're meant to take longer time for rotation.

during build up you're weak.
full mechanic you're stronger.
It took 20sec. faster/slower depend on player/situation.

you don't have to spam everything.
choice and focus.
set big 20sec( or 30sec ) skill as rotation mark and fill it up with smaller skills.

10sec is the minimum time to avoid having to recast a buff before it's duration ends (which would have been a trick), but I could have chosen any other time window, the results would have been the same.
Why not 20 or 30 or X ?
Because in 20sec you'd have to use twice as many abilities, in 30sec three times as many and in Xsec, X times as many. Due to rounding, yes you'll find some particular time windows that allow you to fit one more skill in, but good luck only fighting fights that last exactly 50sec (random number used as an exemple) no more no less.

There is no trick here. If you are sure there is one, feel free to correct me.

Earthcake wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:27 pm

Spoiler:

anarchypark wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:52 pm first of all, why set base time resource to 10 second ?
you put everything inside 10 sec and claim it's too short.
and ppl fall to it. magic of math eh ?
percentage trick.

set it to 20sec and you'll see it's ok.
IB/BG mechanic is build up.
they're meant to take longer time for rotation.

during build up you're weak.
full mechanic you're stronger.
It took 20sec. faster/slower depend on player/situation.

you don't have to spam everything.
choice and focus.
set big 20sec( or 30sec ) skill as rotation mark and fill it up with smaller skills.

10sec is the minimum time to avoid having to recast a buff before it's duration ends (which would have been a trick), but I could have chosen any other time window, the results would have been the same.
Why not 20 or 30 or X ?
Because in 20sec you'd have to use twice as many abilities, in 30sec three times as many and in Xsec, X times as many. Due to rounding, yes you'll find some particular time windows that allow you to fit one more skill in, but good luck only fighting fights that last exactly 50sec (random number used as an exemple) no more no less.

There is no trick here. If you are sure there is one, feel free to correct me.

trick is percentage.
you and others just want buff 10sec to more duration.
OP reasoning is simply '10sec is too short' and brought some percentage, squeezing rotation into 10sec.

my advice is you should set rotation, cycle to 20~30sec.
and buff rotation is second thing.
when to use what is first.
guard swap, challenge, HtL, aoe snare mainly.
so rotation is never same, constantly change but inside start/end of long duration buff.

anarchypark wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:00 am

Earthcake wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:27 pm

Spoiler:

anarchypark wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:52 pm first of all, why set base time resource to 10 second ?
you put everything inside 10 sec and claim it's too short.
and ppl fall to it. magic of math eh ?
percentage trick.

set it to 20sec and you'll see it's ok.
IB/BG mechanic is build up.
they're meant to take longer time for rotation.

during build up you're weak.
full mechanic you're stronger.
It took 20sec. faster/slower depend on player/situation.

you don't have to spam everything.
choice and focus.
set big 20sec( or 30sec ) skill as rotation mark and fill it up with smaller skills.

10sec is the minimum time to avoid having to recast a buff before it's duration ends (which would have been a trick), but I could have chosen any other time window, the results would have been the same.
Why not 20 or 30 or X ?
Because in 20sec you'd have to use twice as many abilities, in 30sec three times as many and in Xsec, X times as many. Due to rounding, yes you'll find some particular time windows that allow you to fit one more skill in, but good luck only fighting fights that last exactly 50sec (random number used as an exemple) no more no less.

There is no trick here. If you are sure there is one, feel free to correct me.

trick is percentage.
you and others just want buff 10sec to more duration.
OP reasoning is simply '10sec is too short' and brought some percentage, squeezing rotation into 10sec.

my advice is you should set rotation, cycle to 20~30sec.
and buff rotation is second thing.
when to use what is first.
guard swap, challenge, HtL, aoe snare mainly.
so rotation is never same, constantly change but inside start/end of long duration buff.

Again, that wouldn't change the numbers.
But since there's absolutely no way you pulled 20sec out of nothing, you obviously did the numbers.
So post them so everyone can see that there's no problem if we use a 20sec window.

Earthcake wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:53 pm Yes, you said some things already, doesn't mean they were right in the first place sorry.
Best group AP pump ? ONLY if you use grudges, and quite alot of it actually, otherwise chosen/kotbs aura is superior to provide an AP advantage to your party.

But, you aren't using grudges if you armor debuff, KD with your superior shatter limbs, aoe snare, block with oathstone, taunt, challenge, sever blessing, etc, etc, etc

So maybe you don't have to buff your oathfriend in some specific scenario, but then, you are not providing any AP to your party either.

The longer duration buffs wouldn't make IB easier to master, but make it so it can achieve the potential of the other tank classes. Now you can master it, and you'll still perform less good than if you were playing any other tank in the game.

Grudges are constantly at 100 when guarding a mdps fighting the blob. You get grudges back using magic shield and shield sweep correctly, I don't know how a slayer with 0 AP is better with a knights aura for ap than it is an IB.

You use abilities in accordance to priorities, why pump AP for the group and waste grudge when no one in the group is asking for AP.

I really don't see how you can perform less good than other tanks in the game. A knight cannot disable a healer on its own as well as an IB can or control a blob as well as an IB... Any mdps would prefer an IB as a guard over any other tank.

Maybe the abilities are designed to have time constraints and not to give a class like the slayer/wl a constant crit, parry, magic shield, iniative, and strength buffs throughout an entire city fight seeing that would be somewhat overpowered.

detrap wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:48 am

Earthcake wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:53 pm Yes, you said some things already, doesn't mean they were right in the first place sorry.
Best group AP pump ? ONLY if you use grudges, and quite alot of it actually, otherwise chosen/kotbs aura is superior to provide an AP advantage to your party.

But, you aren't using grudges if you armor debuff, KD with your superior shatter limbs, aoe snare, block with oathstone, taunt, challenge, sever blessing, etc, etc, etc

So maybe you don't have to buff your oathfriend in some specific scenario, but then, you are not providing any AP to your party either.

The longer duration buffs wouldn't make IB easier to master, but make it so it can achieve the potential of the other tank classes. Now you can master it, and you'll still perform less good than if you were playing any other tank in the game.

Grudges are constantly at 100 when guarding a mdps fighting the blob. You get grudges back using magic shield and shield sweep correctly, I don't know how a slayer with 0 AP is better with a knights aura for ap than it is an IB.

You use abilities in accordance to priorities, why pump AP for the group and waste grudge when no one in the group is asking for AP.

I really don't see how you can perform less good than other tanks in the game. A knight cannot disable a healer on its own as well as an IB can or control a blob as well as an IB... Any mdps would prefer an IB as a guard over any other tank.

Maybe the abilities are designed to have time constraints and not to give a class like the slayer/wl a constant crit, parry, magic shield, iniative, and strength buffs throughout an entire city fight seeing that would be somewhat overpowered.

The fact that don't even understand that I was talking about using grudges not due to grudge availability but, again, due to time constraints cause using grudges means using time casting these grudges requiring abilities, makes me think you are not even playing an IB.

Wait, buffing ONE guy would be op when all other tanks can buff the whole party or debuff multiples foes ? lol

While you are disabling a healer/controlling the blob or whatever else, you are not buffing and not giving AP, other tanks do.

Earthcake wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:26 am

detrap wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:48 am

Earthcake wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:53 pm Yes, you said some things already, doesn't mean they were right in the first place sorry.
Best group AP pump ? ONLY if you use grudges, and quite alot of it actually, otherwise chosen/kotbs aura is superior to provide an AP advantage to your party.

But, you aren't using grudges if you armor debuff, KD with your superior shatter limbs, aoe snare, block with oathstone, taunt, challenge, sever blessing, etc, etc, etc

So maybe you don't have to buff your oathfriend in some specific scenario, but then, you are not providing any AP to your party either.

The longer duration buffs wouldn't make IB easier to master, but make it so it can achieve the potential of the other tank classes. Now you can master it, and you'll still perform less good than if you were playing any other tank in the game.

Grudges are constantly at 100 when guarding a mdps fighting the blob. You get grudges back using magic shield and shield sweep correctly, I don't know how a slayer with 0 AP is better with a knights aura for ap than it is an IB.

You use abilities in accordance to priorities, why pump AP for the group and waste grudge when no one in the group is asking for AP.

I really don't see how you can perform less good than other tanks in the game. A knight cannot disable a healer on its own as well as an IB can or control a blob as well as an IB... Any mdps would prefer an IB as a guard over any other tank.

Maybe the abilities are designed to have time constraints and not to give a class like the slayer/wl a constant crit, parry, magic shield, iniative, and strength buffs throughout an entire city fight seeing that would be somewhat overpowered.

The fact that don't even understand that I was talking about using grudges not due to grudge availability but, again, due to time constraints cause using grudges means using time casting these grudges requiring abilities, makes me think you are not even playing an IB.

Wait, buffing ONE guy would be op when all other tanks can buff the whole party or debuff multiples foes ? lol

While you are disabling a healer/controlling the blob or whatever else, you are not buffing and not giving AP, other tanks do.

I think we are playing different games...But let's hope the devs have a rework planned for the IB/BG mechanic down the track so it's easier to play

Earthcake wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:26 am

detrap wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:48 am

Earthcake wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:53 pm Yes, you said some things already, doesn't mean they were right in the first place sorry.
Best group AP pump ? ONLY if you use grudges, and quite alot of it actually, otherwise chosen/kotbs aura is superior to provide an AP advantage to your party.

But, you aren't using grudges if you armor debuff, KD with your superior shatter limbs, aoe snare, block with oathstone, taunt, challenge, sever blessing, etc, etc, etc

So maybe you don't have to buff your oathfriend in some specific scenario, but then, you are not providing any AP to your party either.

The longer duration buffs wouldn't make IB easier to master, but make it so it can achieve the potential of the other tank classes. Now you can master it, and you'll still perform less good than if you were playing any other tank in the game.

Grudges are constantly at 100 when guarding a mdps fighting the blob. You get grudges back using magic shield and shield sweep correctly, I don't know how a slayer with 0 AP is better with a knights aura for ap than it is an IB.

You use abilities in accordance to priorities, why pump AP for the group and waste grudge when no one in the group is asking for AP.

I really don't see how you can perform less good than other tanks in the game. A knight cannot disable a healer on its own as well as an IB can or control a blob as well as an IB... Any mdps would prefer an IB as a guard over any other tank.

Maybe the abilities are designed to have time constraints and not to give a class like the slayer/wl a constant crit, parry, magic shield, iniative, and strength buffs throughout an entire city fight seeing that would be somewhat overpowered.

The fact that don't even understand that I was talking about using grudges not due to grudge availability but, again, due to time constraints cause using grudges means using time casting these grudges requiring abilities, makes me think you are not even playing an IB.

Wait, buffing ONE guy would be op when all other tanks can buff the whole party or debuff multiples foes ? lol

While you are disabling a healer/controlling the blob or whatever else, you are not buffing and not giving AP, other tanks do.

Detrap doesnt know what he is talking about and in most of his posts he makes that clear. Earthcake is right about ib and time and it doesnt matter if you inxrease time to 20 or 30 seconds i mean lol.