SC queue and matchmaking system info request

[Mystry]

Your anecdotal experience is not evidence. As for the comp of that team, I can only assume there was literally ZERO actual tanks or healers in the pool to draw from (which doesn't surprise me). And yes 2H tanks are goddamn DPS. And I play a Swordmaster, arguably the ONLY tank on Order that can actually feasibly tank with a 2 hander.

Also DPS healers cannot heal. Period, end of story, full stop. Their gear has no willpower on it and they don't have healing tactics equipped. As an example, a WP might crit you for maybe 400 on heal in DPS gear, and sure aren't gonna stop even one enemy DPS let alone a team. Throwing tissue paper in front of a freight train doesn't accomplish anything.

Lastly, don't be naive, DPS healers are not going to "change gear". Firstly because if they wanted to heal they'd be specced for it, secondly because if they are playing scenarios they most likely don't HAVE healer gear since scenarios don't give it, and thirdly because even if they did, they still don't have the right masteries and renown investments for it on.

[marisco]

Your anecdotal experience is not evidence. As for the comp of that team, I can only assume there was literally ZERO actual tanks or healers in the pool to draw from (which doesn't surprise me). And yes 2H tanks are goddamn DPS. And I play a Swordmaster, arguably the ONLY tank on Order that can actually feasibly tank with a 2 hander.

Also DPS healers cannot heal. Period, end of story, full stop. Their gear has no willpower on it and they don't have healing tactics equipped. As an example, a WP might crit you for maybe 400 on heal in DPS gear, and sure aren't gonna stop even one enemy DPS let alone a team. Throwing tissue paper in front of a freight train doesn't accomplish anything.

Lastly, don't be naive, DPS healers are not going to "change gear". Firstly because if they wanted to heal they'd be specced for it, secondly because if they are playing scenarios they most likely don't HAVE healer gear since scenarios don't give it, and thirdly because even if they did, they still don't have the right masteries and renown investments for it on.

DPS healers can't perform their core function when they are dps speced, we all agree on that.

But what is the core function of a tank? Taking damage for someone, using challenge and taunt, pushing into a backline, assisting with ccs, punting people way? Can't 2h tanks do that? Don't you guard people on your SM? Don't you challenge to reduce the damage your healers/dps are taking? Don't you assist with cc? Interrupt with taunt? Punt tanks away from their guards?

I don't get the notion that 2h tanks are not tanks. Yes, you trade survivabilty for damage. But the core playstyle remains the same.

[Sulorie]

Your anecdotal experience is not evidence. As for the comp of that team, I can only assume there was literally ZERO actual tanks or healers in the pool to draw from (which doesn't surprise me). And yes 2H tanks are goddamn DPS. And I play a Swordmaster, arguably the ONLY tank on Order that can actually feasibly tank with a 2 hander.

Also DPS healers cannot heal. Period, end of story, full stop. Their gear has no willpower on it and they don't have healing tactics equipped. As an example, a WP might crit you for maybe 400 on heal in DPS gear, and sure aren't gonna stop even one enemy DPS let alone a team. Throwing tissue paper in front of a freight train doesn't accomplish anything.

Lastly, don't be naive, DPS healers are not going to "change gear". Firstly because if they wanted to heal they'd be specced for it, secondly because if they are playing scenarios they most likely don't HAVE healer gear since scenarios don't give it, and thirdly because even if they did, they still don't have the right masteries and renown investments for it on.

Thank you for telling everyone, that you lack any knowledge on what tanks and healers of either spec can do.
Furthermore, those in queue on both sides would take any sc setup over 1 sc per hour. It's not the first time, that teams without heal or tank won sc. Both sides want to fight and not wait hours to get 6 emblems.
It's the players job to swap classes, if they think it is required. We don't need a matchmaker to do it for us.
During EU prime were times, when not a single sc was open.

[peterthepan3]

2H tanks are tanks: 2h IB has Skin of Iron, Runic Shield, Seen it all Before, several other tactics, and Oathbound to help him survive; 2h Kobs is incredibly resilient with his auras, has amazing morales, and Vigilance (if you are low-geared, otherwise you're fine without); 2h BG has Anger Drives Me, Shield of Rage, M1 Cleanse; 2h Chosen has very high parry and great resilience with amazing morales to help him survive; 2h BO has You wot?! that was specifically designed to help him 2h tank.

Please stop spreading misinformation: 2h tank is a totally viable way to play in smallscale for all tanks. Suicidal crazy players do not represent 2h tanks; they represent bad players.

[Ashoris]

And yes 2H tanks are goddamn DPS. And I play a Swordmaster, arguably the ONLY tank on Order that can actually feasibly tank with a 2 hander.

Can you please read the comments by other 2h Tanks and dont spread false information ?
the System in place is forcing you to play 2h because in SC as a KoTBS/Chosen you are better in your Job as TANK with 2h than with SnB (and belive me, i dont like it) I have to run with a shitty looking 2h Sword as a KoTBS instead of playing SnB just because the skills needed for my role as a tank force me to use 2h! In the RARE case of 3+ decent ranged DPS on the other side and HTL is more important than Punt, I am still able to switch to shield.

Lastly, don't be naive, DPS healers are not going to "change gear". Firstly because if they wanted to heal they'd be specced for it, secondly because if they are playing scenarios they most likely don't HAVE healer gear since scenarios don't give it, and thirdly because even if they did, they still don't have the right masteries and renown investments for it on.

This shows you post without even reading the discussion! he (Sulorie, the person you reply to) plays mainly DPS AM but ALWAYS switches to heal if there is a lack of healers in the SC ....

[saupreusse]

So we all agree theres an overpopulation of dps tanks and dps healers in scens and way too few real tanks and Healers queuing resulting in awful low pop times for all of them since they all stand in the dps line waiting for a ride as wargrimnir said. The solution obviously is to get more snb tanks and real healers to queue for scens. However, this would mean you would have to give them a carrot in order for them to queue. Right now once you obtained the sc weps theres 0 reason whatsoever to queue sc as healer or tank. You simply cant get the gear you need because here on ror we have them seperated by different currencies/playstyles. The only way to improve queue times is to either remove the whole emblem/medallion system alltogether and introduce one shared currency for both as it was on live - or make currency transferable from one to another. Lets be real. If you want the best equip for your playstyle you dont have a choice. You either have to do only rvr or only sc to obtain it. This doesnt really make a lot of sense since not every healer wants to play only rvr and not all 2h tanks want to play only scens. On ror you have the choice of 2 different sets which is awesome, sadly youre also force locked into one playstyle only to obtain the gear.

[Sulorie]

So we all agree theres an overpopulation of dps tanks and dps healers in scens and way too few real tanks and Healers queuing resulting in awful low pop times for all of them since they all stand in the dps line waiting for a ride as wargrimnir said. The solution obviously is to get more snb tanks and real healers to queue for scens.

The problem is, s&b tanks are in most cases worse than their 2h counterparts outside of rvr or pve. It simply makes little sense to do sc with a shield tank outside of some specs. A balanced group with 2 shield tanks is just bad.
The 2h tank is there foremost for certain 2h-only skills and not for the damage, because assist damage is only one reason for 2h spec but not the first reason to bring them.
Those 2h tanks, who melt to incoming damage, are no dps, they are just bad. There is mechanically no reason to put them in the dps queue.

The differences are bigger between heal spec and dps spec healers, because they can't fulfill both roles at the same time, unlike tanks.
What they still can do is adapting to the current sc setup (aka changing gear and having 2/3 heal power of a true healer is better than none, when you want to win), if they want to.
Often this lead to a win.
Imagine only 1 true healer in sc and 1 dps healer is allowed to join 2nd group. This is more healing than before, especially when they swap gear.

The solution to have guaranteed true healers in sc is to queue with a group. The current MM tries to archive this, by increasing queue times for most players and the results are not even better than before. This is the core problem, the applied solution doesn't show positive results.

[navis]

With all due respect to the devs, but feedback for mm system is that queue is more dead than ever now especially in the evening (pacific). Queue wait is 30 min+ (as healer que for pug scenario) and after waiting for the matchmaking is still not guaranteed, either, because parties are still forming incomplete or not arranged. I'm thinking that it's due to other factors that are still out of the mm system control, such as player leaving queue after the pop.
There is little difference in the final result of group buildup before or after this system was implemented IMHO, only queue's are much, much longer.
thx

[flintboth]

If you join the scenario as group you can play with tank 2 hands or dps healers, your groupmates are ready for (tactics, mastery spe, RR points spe, gear...) but if you join scenario as solo and play tank or healer as DPS that can be more hard because of you or because of others players in your group (not specialized in mastery or with RR points to play with your spe or not agree in mind with DPS spe).

I have see many players running PuG scenario totaly brainless, me included, some players who usually join as group can play really bad without vocal in PuG scenario, it is not a habit from PuG or casual players, only.

It is not evident to check at every scenario begining what class you are fightin, inspect groupmates, buffs... when you join solo scenario.

Solo scenario are fun but they need more adaptation from players who join them, adaptation for group play, adaptation for style of battle...

One thing who make scenario less frequented, for me, is the "emblem", I have to be in IC to take them but scenarios are not popping so I leave the queue to go to the RvR event because it is more active and I don't want to waste 10 minutes behind my screen in IC to join a scenario.

[anarchypark]

people cried for tank+heal balanced match.
now they disappeared and people prefer faster match emerged.
if system gets reverted i bet former'll demand balanced match again.

i'm curious about opinion of those who demanded balanced match.
hope they come out and end this discussion.
so i can stop seeing same thread.
( i know it won't happen )