Current take on "zerg busting" on RoR

[Aurandilaz]

While I personally agree with many of these suggestions, I also think this is very Order biased. But I still agree with them as a fellow combustion-freak

I see some very interesting points in this debate, some I agree with, and some I disagree with. I myself got enlightend from the point of view from the pug warband side, when outnumbered and when outnumbering. and that is not something I do much of myself (pugging) so gave me a little perspective.

From the organized guild wb vs zerg point of view, it just seems like there is little to no room for fighting 3+ warbands, no matter how creative you try to be, if they chose to hold hands and be organized together, and as I said respect for their efforts but Ive always hated situations with no counterplay.

I dont personally do 6man, or care for that plasystyle but admire others who put time and practice into having a solid core group.

Yep, me with my rr78 Sorc and rr71 WE are quite Order biased.

Very potent AoE CC that defines warband fight has counterplays as I mentioned, except with the new Choppa addition you have one mass CC outperforming others. It makes it absurdly easy to have 1-2 choppa get enemy healers or their precious BWs into deathpulls to which they lack a realistic counter (yeh good luck getting well times Taunts in big fights). Previously you had maras trying to sneak in pulls, which were quite visible (see tentacle, Taunt reflex) and able to Disrupt (HTL buff to counter, Healers relatively safe). WL pulls with pet, countered by massive focus whenever WL tries to pull that off because you cannot afford to lose a precious dps or healer. Magus, Engi, both kept in check with good HTL formations. Against Choppa pull? Tanks block/parry, healers/dps get pulled, it's about as powerful as it gets because you can weed out the guardbots.

And I don't play in pug warbands, so I have little idea how they perform. Nor do I play 6mans either.

And again regarding morals, both sides suffer from slow gains, Order just gets the even shorter stick because Mara AoE drain is same old and you just need 1-2 maras with it to neuter a whole enemy warband from being able to pull off a moral drop. Ofc you could always go max AM stacks for max moral builds, but I don't think there is any organized guild left in game at this point who would care enough to pull it off. So with even fewer guilds left, it becomes purely a numbers game; who has larger numbers gets most likely guaranteed victory regardless of underdog trying to minmax their setups/specs.

But who knows, maybe we see some kind of miracle and get massive population increase and get several organized guilds running warbands on both sides bringing forth new warband metas, and maybe even get new balance changes that bring classes like WL, WH, SW - WE SH and make them shine in warband sized fights.

[Glorian]

While I personally agree with many of these suggestions, I also think this is very Order biased. But I still agree with them as a fellow combustion-freak

I see some very interesting points in this debate, some I agree with, and some I disagree with. I myself got enlightend from the point of view from the pug warband side, when outnumbered and when outnumbering. and that is not something I do much of myself (pugging) so gave me a little perspective.

From the organized guild wb vs zerg point of view, it just seems like there is little to no room for fighting 3+ warbands, no matter how creative you try to be, if they chose to hold hands and be organized together, and as I said respect for their efforts but Ive always hated situations with no counterplay.

I dont personally do 6man, or care for that plasystyle but admire others who put time and practice into having a solid core group.

Yep, me with my rr78 Sorc and rr71 WE are quite Order biased
...
And again regarding morals, both sides suffer from slow gains, Order just gets the even shorter stick because Mara AoE drain is same old and you just need 1-2 maras with it to neuter a whole enemy warband from being able to pull off a moral drop. Ofc you could always go max AM stacks for max moral builds, but I don't think there is any organized guild left in game at this point who would care enough to pull it off.
...

Pretty much that.
Mara Numbers are hard coded. And I still remember the 24vs24 from Dwarfs vs Chaos. The Marauders made it safe that the dwarfs had no M2 for 6 minutes. And m1 only for a short duration.

@AMs: I'm not sure it is guild related. But would you like to run in a warband, spamming the whole evening that same ability. Over and over. The same ability you spammed on life for how many years?

Ofc the AM moral pump is the gold standard. You can push a kotbs into m4 in reasonable combat time even before there is combat. But it is not FunTM.

The destro moral pumps mostly just happen while you play the game. You don't need an AM Idiot spamming one Ability for the whole evening.

People want to join a wb to have FunTM. And doing the same things since 2009 isn't FunTM.

For some hours on guild warband days, especially Wednesdays in EU prime people get their stuff together and put effort into the warbands. Even the Roleplayers activate synergies for maximum Ini Debuffs and AoE Snares.

But not on every day of the week.

[wonshot]

Yep, me with my rr78 Sorc and rr71 WE are quite Order biased.

Ah my bad bud, your post was so order favored I didnt dream about it could had been made by a destro main. Sorry for assuming, and max streetcredit for having such a ballance view on the state of the ballancing in organized warband fighting.
The rest of my last post, was not directed at you it was just a few general thourght for the topic.

But if even my enemies can be reasoned with like this, maybe I dont have to face 3 coordinating warbands tomorrow with 3fg order, and can instead fight them one at a time?

Or I guess the roleplayer above me can come and help, if he finds it funTM, spamming different abilties and never use the same more than twice in an evening. Jeeez

[Wuu]

I'm a noob who is pretty bad at all my classes but really good at tactics. From my very, very humble point of view, tanks, healers and leaders make this game. DPS are the true support classes. Order has very good leaders but not enough of them. Order has very good tanks but we all know we don't have enough of them. Don't get me started on healers. Our healers are amazing.....if we have any. When CNTK, FUERER, or any of The Black Crow alliance get together we wreck shop. Problem is that's a rare occurrence that happens once a week. The zerg should win most of the time, I have no issues with that at all. The tools are there to put up great fights against the zerg, people just don't utilize them.
And the thing with xrealming is, what prevents a person from making two accounts? One for each side so that you never lose your contrib? I wouldn't do it because Destro smell bad and I'm about aht realm pride, but then again, I'm a noob.
But then again, I may be wrong.

Wuu

[Natherul]

Only way to do something with zerging is to make multiple objective needed to do something with keep. Like hold 3 bo's to get ram damage or keep 3 bo's to increas damage you do to ram etc.

Afaik, if you take à look on ORvR rework blueprint it was planned. Seems to be technically too complicated to do. Maybe later.

Well Ram damage and damage taken is increased and decreased based on the number of BOs you hold. Up to +/- 30%, this was implemented some time ago. Its just not a visible buff

[Needabeer]

Well Ram damage and damage taken is increased and decreased based on the number of BOs you hold. Up to +/- 30%, this was implemented some time ago. Its just not a visible buff
[/quote]

This I did not know.....

[mogt]

it was in the patch notes,

[Gangan]

it was in the patch notes,

And like we all know to well, not everybody minds to read them
Also there has been so much new stuff recently, that things like these can be overseen or forgotten pretty easy.

A visual buff/indicator would be handy imo (if possible)

[Grock]

Didn't read the whole topic but i really like the idea of scaling AoE target cap with AAO/population differences

Though i believe AAO shouldn't be instantly updated, players that leave the zone should still be counted in AAO calculation for 5-10 minutes, that way it'll be harder to manipulate AAO and use it for your own benefits, although there are still some loopholes there...

[Grock]

And the thing with xrealming is, what prevents a person from making two accounts? One for each side so that you never lose your contrib? I wouldn't do it because Destro smell bad and I'm about aht realm pride, but then again, I'm a noob.
But then again, I may be wrong.

Wuu

Technically the fact that you could potentially lose both of those accounts... Afaik devs have some tools to track that, especially now with new launcher and client control