Return of Reckoning

I think a good way to make the community strive to build organized 24man WBs is to make a 24v24 scenario, or something similar to that of a city siege (closed 24v24 fights). My personal pick would be a slightly longer (time length) Gromril Crossing since the map landscape has a good dynamic and size. I do believe the objectives/flags in that SC would have to be reworked though, in my opinion, and also no siege cannons, and maybe a more rewarding SC quest.

This would bring those clean organized 24v24 fights that everyone loves seeing out in the lakes but unfortunately, you sometimes see other pugs in the mix bloating the death count for one side or the other, sometimes run into extra ST 6mans, or during EU time; another whole WB could show up from the flank and end the fight rather quickly and un-entertainingly by being grossly outnumbered.

Having a set 24v24 SC or something of the like would allow for the teams to better measure and see clearer their strategies implemented, exploring compositions, exploring specs, etc, without the confusion of "did we lose because of our comp or because we just got outnumbered"

It may not pop organically while a zone is open, that is a flaw to this idea since server pop is something to be considered. So something will have to be crafted to make this 24man SC pop, realistically speaking. Possibly after a zone locks, open the SC to be qued, and lock all zones for 30min-1hr to give people a breath to do some SCs after fighting it out in KV for 3-xx hours.

I'm open to criticism on this idea, as i never really played on Live during city sieges. Were they more fun and clear-cut compared to running into a lake as a 24man?

Those Phalanx/bitterstone thunderer Warband fights were awesome to watch, and the videos are on Youtube somewhere. It was refreshing to see a clean 24v24 without extras in the mix. Just an idea.

edit: could also allow 12mans to que for their respected SCs, and 18mans to que Battle for Praag + Grom Crossing

dansari wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:37 pm

roadkillrobin wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:54 pm Maybe something could be done with movement speed/collition when hiding in blobs, aswell as making AoE damage strong again. I do belive that weak AoE and AoE hitcaps have caused much more problem then it solved.

For example, when in combat movement speed starts to slow down by 1% for each friendly player above 12 within 10 feet with no upper cap.

This should counter somewhat that blobs AoE output also would get more powerful with a AoE boost.

Would make incredibly mobile destro groups even more mobile. Order needs AOE counters or more classes with mobility of their own first

Which group?
It's a general change. You zerg and you get punnished by movement based how big zerg you run with. It's even kinda realistic as bigger army is alot more clumpsy to move around. It would scales the same for both sides so if there is a mobility issue it's a core problem. But i've never even heard about that being a issue before tbh. And what counters are you talking about that order doesn't have that destro does? Run Away tactics of the Goblins? Who slots those things in a warband setup?

Landgoat wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:59 pm I think a good way to make the community strive to build organized 24man WBs is to make a 24v24 scenario(...)

That's a great idea but is it possible?

Mcgotrek wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:09 pm

Landgoat wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:59 pm I think a good way to make the community strive to build organized 24man WBs is to make a 24v24 scenario(...)

That's a great idea but is it possible?

Thunder valley is a 18v18 or 24v24 scenario if I recall ?

roadkillrobin wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:56 pm
Which group?

NA greenskins (and from what I've seen via the most recent video, phalanx has started doing it too) with the 4 Squig, 2 shaman groups. You don't need the Run Away tactic, though it's definitely one of the more versatile core, racial tactics. But you can also pick up the Run Away ability, plus you get 4x Squig m2 and 2x sticky feetz. With no immunities, your movement is constantly controlled, unable to be cleansed.

Not to mention that destro has 8 movement speed increasers not counting charge, and order has 4 (that's including Swift Strikes from SW which requires a melee target and WL post-pounce speed buff, which requires a target). Conversely, none of the destro speed increasers require a target, thus my "destro mobile groups" statement.

roadkillrobin wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:56 pm

dansari wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:37 pm

roadkillrobin wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:54 pm Maybe something could be done with movement speed/collition when hiding in blobs, aswell as making AoE damage strong again. I do belive that weak AoE and AoE hitcaps have caused much more problem then it solved.

For example, when in combat movement speed starts to slow down by 1% for each friendly player above 12 within 10 feet with no upper cap.

This should counter somewhat that blobs AoE output also would get more powerful with a AoE boost.

Would make incredibly mobile destro groups even more mobile. Order needs AOE counters or more classes with mobility of their own first

Which group?
It's a general change. You zerg and you get punnished by movement based how big zerg you run with. It's even kinda realistic as bigger army is alot more clumpsy to move around. It would scales the same for both sides so if there is a mobility issue it's a core problem. But i've never even heard about that being a issue before tbh. And what counters are you talking about that order doesn't have that destro does? Run Away tactics of the Goblins? Who slots those things in a warband setup?

these feel like the same kind of idea which aza used with sieges weapons or directionl attack,

wanna remaind ya that blobbing allredy have problem with collision, it alredy piss most competet player due ppl get attach to em jsut to be carry around since they end inevitably to be in the way. Idk how many times it happened here and in live aswell

if you wanna split the zerg it's all about have to deal with multipler BOs at the same fixed time so you are forced for win to send equal forced in the same times in different place; basically why there wqere 3 zones open but instead zones need objective with 1 big collective timers; all open and all clsoe after 3 min window, you cant zerg 1 flgag after another one and lock it with 1 big zerg and enemy cant just zerg to prevent faction to lock by target pick 1 flag.

aor failing because have individuals lock timers for flags
ror failing because it have no lock timers at all
working system it have a collective lock timers

wanna success in spread the population into 1 single zone? implement collective lock timers and create a 5th flags in map, and get some maps editors because this game problem from alpha is maps designs aswell, it was over reported by old daoc players and you can find it anywhere on the internet.

morales need a nerf due balance reason in specific cases; ista morales whoudl neither be granted to class which shine for aoe raw dmgs and that have morales boost. Channeling have counters ista drop have only awareness and positioning which suck especially when you are in bottleneck. The only way to deal with such sich is send meatshield to die and then push keep pull and disruot moral gen so that thet enemy will never be able to lands coordinates ista morales dmg drops.

morales are also handle bad, morales should have no cap target but be less powerfull while def morales should also work reducing morales dmg

for exemple sorc/engi m2 is useless; the first is aiming for dmg m4 nd the second will never reach that in time before the encounter is over or anyway enemy morales gona make that useless.

Def morales are not a part of the game right know because they dont coutner off morales....this also mean inferior forces have problem push an higher one because higher one still have morales which can nuke even easier since higher number the opposition.

Then we have some incredibly devastating 2400 dmg m4 in game which should not even see the sun , camon even in sov with 10k of life a tank is oneshoot by 5 bw/sorc that way. Generally speaking offensive morales miss

A) a general rule for tolltips scaling that is applied well to all off morales like 900/1200/1600/1900 , which keep in account malus for a morales (both for dmg and CC part of the effect ) for be:

-have cc component (need dmg reduction)
-have aoo (need dmg cut half)
-aoe + cc (need dmg and cc duration cut half)


B) target cap removed

C) possible morales on 15 pt moved and scaled back to m3 spots..

D) as said def morales also reducing off morales dmg

dansari wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:14 pm

roadkillrobin wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:56 pm
Which group?

NA greenskins (and from what I've seen via the most recent video, phalanx has started doing it too) with the 4 Squig, 2 shaman groups. You don't need the Run Away tactic, though it's definitely one of the more versatile core, racial tactics. But you can also pick up the Run Away ability, plus you get 4x Squig m2 and 2x sticky feetz. With no immunities, your movement is constantly controlled, unable to be cleansed.

Not to mention that destro has 8 movement speed increasers not counting charge, and order has 4 (that's including Swift Strikes from SW which requires a melee target and WL post-pounce speed buff, which requires a target). Conversely, none of the destro speed increasers require a target, thus my "destro mobile groups" statement.

Last video was just a spoof video with a bunch of mistakes or silly things in all of our nonaired footage. Phalanx hasn't done anything on destro in a minute outside of one or two of us. Unless you count gunbad and beastlord.

Mcgotrek wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:09 pm

Landgoat wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:59 pm I think a good way to make the community strive to build organized 24man WBs is to make a 24v24 scenario(...)

That's a great idea but is it possible?

The 24v24 SC is definitely a stretch given the population, but a fun idea. Me and a friend discussed it for a shortwhile, and came to the conclusion that queing as a 12man or 18man group would be fun and more realistic for the pop. I'd suggest also that the one SC is dedicated to organized 12v12 or 18v18 similar to how Eternal Citadel / Isha are set up for 6v6. Whether or not the 12man could que regular SCs is really up to the community/staff.

I find it a huge issue (and im sure others see this often) is people in WBs in lakes, since there is no time limit, will ninja AFK or take breaks at different times, usually in a 24man (unless its phalanx), someones always AFK or slacking off since there are often chunks of downtime where you're looking for the enemy (just look at pug WBs... so many AFK/ not following leader). In SCs this isn't an issue as people don't afk because they can't; they're fighting for 10-15 minutes and one person afk is a huge disadvantage + kick after 120s.

I think this would be really cool addition to RoR and instead of seeing so many organized 6man guilds we may start to see an uptick in people trying to build 12man-24man guild groups on the regular to que and iron out their comps, and gain team chemistry. I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts.

There are only a couple of things that I can think of and both are very unrealistic.

One would be integrated voice chat, where the Devs can control who is talking and listening to whom (No cross faction communication allowed). This would put everyone on an even playing field (as well as make it very difficult to use the comms to spy on the opposing side). I've always looked at voice chat as something that gives a massive advantage (to the point of being a borderline cheat) when using it against opponents that don't have it, and feel that without integration and control it is too easily exploited in a PvP environment.

The second would be a magic spell that would remove all the lag I seem to get when there are more than about 3-4 warbands in the same area at a time.

However, adding big 24v24 scenarios is an intriguing idea!

24v24 scenario would be a desert unless you only allow full warbands into it. And even then chances are that people get tired of getting stomped long before they realize they have a lot of improving to do. If we are talking about a warband queueable scenario that is.