Return of Reckoning

billziegler wrote:It may have been suggested before, and if so my apologies, but what, if any, consideration has been given to allowing conq medals to be purchased with officer's medallions? As the previous scales go, 5 could go for 1, or possibly even 10 for 1 if majority consider this a method of "too fast" gain. Would put more of a value to the officer's tokens which are still given as rewards, yet don't pose much use past the purchase of the annihilator set. Might also help to alleviate some of the "gearing pains" that seem to be frustrating to people. Thanks for your time considering, and most of all, your continued efforts keeping us gaming!

Current team stance is: no

Hargrim wrote:

Aurandilaz wrote:

Achilleos wrote:I am rather confused how people can even complain about having 10+ purple bags and not getting the one subjugator weapon they need... I wish I even got anything other than a white bag after 40+ white bags.
I just have no luck it seems... or I am simply playing wrong to have no contribution, even though I often spend my time in the zone from beginning to end, fighting alongside my wb.

Even so I still prefer this system over the one on live back then.

You gotta maximize the amount of lottery bags to maximize expected gain

-log in, check which side has AAO is about to lose
-play on losing side, do 3-5 kills or assists, do some small contri that is enough to enter the lottery
-leave lake so that the side that is losing possibly has even bigger AAO now, or log off
-wait for the lottery results
-repeat in next zone

Doing this for a month or so, you can minmax the game by doing bare minimum "lottery entry fees" of 3-5 kills per zone, then going away and waiting until next zone lottery starts. The main important thing is to play on losing side, as winners (who usually face enemies that are losing and have AAO) have decreased/worse "victory bags". Just keep rolling, you can expect tons of white bags, business as usual, with enough of daily "heroic loser" tries you can expect 1-2 gold per month, 3-4 purples, maybe 5-10 blues and 10-15 greens and damn high number of whites.

This sounds like fun. I'm happy our community have such individuals like you, focused on what's important.

You can’t blame about that. Even if I hate xrealming, and I focus on just 1 char, i’m Trying to do the same thing. Log as much as possible, achive some contribution with fast kills, repeat. There is too much lucky involved in the process. If it was like sc things would be better. You play, you win or lose, you get reward, at the end of the (long) way you get what you need.
But get a full genesis / right subjugator? It’s just a pain for me. And it’s all about luck. The only thing I can do is get a lot of roll and hope for the right bag with the right loot. And that’s what i’m doing.
I have like 12 genesis piece (but I salvaged other 5 at least) and no full set. I get 10 purple bags and no right weapon. What’s supposed I will do? Play forever a character with 400+ game hours without right gear?

Of course I can blame. As players can't behave themselves this generates more work for me and forces me to add more sticks instead of carrots.

Hargrim wrote:Of course I can blame. As players can't behave themselves this generates more work for me and forces me to add more sticks instead of carrots.

On the other hand, you guys made the system, that made that kind of play worthwile. So you should expect players to play it. Thats natural. Every other expectation is just naive and idealistic.
So the only way to stop that is to make it not work that way and to not distinguish between loosers and winners.

There is a term to describe current "behaviour" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive
It keeps happening in various forms year after year, as an unwanted side effect to some rule/policy that initially starts as good idea, until people realize they can alter their behaviour to use said idea/policy to their own benefit and possibly undermining the initial goal of the idea.
This is what is happening here now. Instead of being rewarded for large efforts with good bags, it more often than not ends with your rolls suffering because enemies gave up and the remaining of them have large AAO, so the winners get "meh" bags.
Meanwhile the defenders are not really interested in winning, since it might result in an effect where if you win too much, enemies give up and the remaining enemies have AAO, and you would get AAO-punished lower bags. So what defenders can best do, is feign heroic defence, achieve some kills, throw in the towel, log off to increase AAO further and then hope that with heroic defence AgainstAllOdds (even if offline) your average bag gain expectancy rises above 1.0WhiteBags.

I'm just a labrat playing the system you have given us. I don't blame you if it has flaws, making a truly flawless system will just never happen, but hopefully with some of the feedback provided here, some adjustments can hopefully be made.

Theseus wrote:

Hargrim wrote:Of course I can blame. As players can't behave themselves this generates more work for me and forces me to add more sticks instead of carrots.

On the other hand, you guys made the system, that made that kind of play worthwile. So you should expect players to play it. Thats natural. Every other expectation is just naive and idealistic.
So the only way to stop that is to make it not work that way and to not distinguish between loosers and winners.

^this
MMOs, since they involve very little social control, just tend to free-riding. We are just playing the system as it is working right now.

Note: you are allowing free x-realming, probably the strongest form of free-riding possible in WaR. Minmax the bag system is a little thing compared to xrealming.

Note2: in early ‘20 of the last century, during the war communism economical policy in URSS, based on a redistribution policy, farmers just cut down they’re food production under the redistribution quote and started to sell the little surplus on the black market. exploiting the system is the usual reaction to get some control on an uncontrolled situation U.U

Hargrim wrote:Of course I can blame. As players can't behave themselves this generates more work for me and forces me to add more sticks instead of carrots.

Here is your basic problem: "players can't behave themselves."

I truly understand your frustration, the dev team have this ideal of how they want their game to run, the players have this ideal of how they want thier playing experience to be.

Anyone who was run a tabletop rpg can understand this eternal conflict.

One of the problems with RoR is that the players have no power. In a commercial game the devs and players are in a complicated relationship with devs needing the player cashflow which influences the game. The most effective mmo's balance player demands and dev's ideal.

In RoR we play how the dev's want and have no real power to influence so that engenders no real incentive to not find ways to "play the system".

Also RoR is a game created by devs and players, you guys have no real PR team, I dont mean that as an insult, I am a customer service professional and I have spent 20 years being the middle msn between the guys who create the product and the guys who use it and understand the frustrations on both sides.

"Carrot and stick" does not really work. Something guven has no value and threats if retribution just create resentment and encourage further dissent.

The biggest issue is the unclear nature of the system and the feeling if randomness. Players respond best to a system they can see, work towards.

Take the bis SC weapons. They take around 333 wins to obtain, nearly two thousand losses or a combination thereof. It is no easy grind, taking commitment and so it should. But players can see their steady commitment paid off, understand what they need to do to get there and feel a sense of achievement.

Getting rvr gear feels like a lottery.

I've read about that play experience above - log for 15 minites and quit. Fun.

And transparency would for sure reduce the number of attempts to play the system. Obviously.

Hargrim wrote:I've read about that play experience above - log for 15 minites and quit. Fun.

And transparency would for sure reduce the number of attempts to play the system. Obviously.

Obviously not everyone plays the "15 minutes" thing, prrsonaly I'd find that boring and not everyone is obsessed with best gear quickly.

I, for example, play to relax after work. However, even I have found the sheer randomness of gearing my main so frustrating I gave up and just level an alt now due to burn out

When you play your heart out for a series of whites and get a gold after a twenty minute rvr session you had to end early due to real life issues.

I think this is the heart of the frustration. The feeling that bag quality is completely random.

Hargrim wrote:I've read about that play experience above - log for 15 minites and quit. Fun.

And transparency would for sure reduce the number of attempts to play the system. Obviously.

Your sarcasm might be correct, but it is beside the point.

It still is pretty simple. If a system can be played, it will be played. If you reveal the system or not, is not really important. If you dont, people will figur out what is working by trial and error. I know even some people who only play games to find out how to play the system, to publish it and quit the game afterwards. That how it has been and it always will be. To expect the players not to do that is nothing but idealistic. You onl will get more frustrated because it will happen no matter what you try.