Return of Reckoning

dansari wrote:

Haojin wrote:

dansari wrote:I wasn't really arguing that destro tanks are somehow op. Everyone knows knight is the best tank in the game. But WHY is it the best tank? Because it is a hybrid BO/Chosen. A tank's job is to control and utility. A knight can: 3man slow permanently (with tactic), big punt (with tactic), aura for buff/debuff, crit increasers (with tactic), AOE stagger. These are some of the core skills that make up the Chosen/BO hybrid, and why running a knight is incredibly crucial to running successful parties. The Chosen/BO still have a morale pump, however, which make the combo better overall. The other two tanks are meh except for being a WW SM bot, which is also a meh playstyle. So, no, destro tanks aren't "OP," but this is why order is lacking tanks.

black orc bubble in zerg fights. legend. well spotted mate.

To be honest I'm glad I don't play EU so I don't have to listen to you whine about destro and boast about how good you are in the same breath.

Collateral wrote:

dansari wrote:Chosen and BO bring so much group utility that order has no real comparison except knight. You can even bring BG now for easy superpunts or to beef up one DPS in particular, although the power of chosen aura, BO absorb/slows, and morale pumping is better.. Order didn't really bring it upon themselves; the class makeup and class aesthetics are what drive archetype numbers.

Super punts in rvr? Meh. When you're facing 2 wbs, st punts won't do much for you, plus people are very likely to have all the immunities. Sure bg has nice st buffs and debuffs, but it's still not really a wb material tank, not to even mention lack of morale pump. I think we can all agree on that.

Bo bubble? You mean the 500 dmg over 5 seconds that you have to use on a target in melee range, and can therefore be defended? Yea no. It's a waste of a gcd and a waste of htl/chm channel time. 500 dmg is one hit from a single bw, which hit for even more really. Sw hits for over 1k easily. If you instead of that bubble used htl, you actually give a chance for your team to defend these attacks, not just mitigate a small amount of it. So I hope you can see that it's a useless ability for rvr.

Bo snare? The tactic puts it on a god damn 10s cd. It's beyond useless in rvr. Sure you can take kd for chop fasta buff that will put it on a 5s cd, and actually make it similar to kotbs snare, but you still need a tactic and an ability from high up in a tree to make it work. Not to mention you obviously won't have chop fasta up all the time, meaning you can't maintain 100% uptime, unlike kotbs ofc (that only needs one tactic which costs lousy 4 points, I don't know which kotbs wouldn't take that). I don't use the snare anymore, in any play style I do.

Saying sm is useless in wbs is simply not true. It brings double resist debuff. That alone is a reason to take it. It has a bubble that is actually worth taking. Over 700 dmg absorb, that he can cast whenever he wants. Ww is not as useless as people might think either (spammable aoes from bws). I dare to say sm is one of the tankier tanks in wbs. If you spec right, you can last very long. It has very nice tactics that stack with abilities. I play sm in wbs, so don't think I'm making all this up in my head. I'm usually among the last to die.

Sure order doesn't have morale pump on tanks. But it has morale pump on ams and bws. And since the nerf to bo snare, it's even easier to kite while you build morales. Snares from ams and kotbs, free bubbles from sm etc. Build up to bw m4, and see things melt from 100 feet. Then push in with tanks and seal the deal

To conclude, bw is far from obsolete in rvr, where you will get the majority of your kills very easily.