Are BWs obsolete?

[Cimba]

I don't think it's fair at all to dismiss the viability of bws in 1-3-2 ranged parties

Life's not fair.

[Haojin]

Spoiler:

I wasn't really arguing that destro tanks are somehow op. Everyone knows knight is the best tank in the game. But WHY is it the best tank? Because it is a hybrid BO/Chosen. A tank's job is to control and utility. A knight can: 3man slow permanently (with tactic), big punt (with tactic), aura for buff/debuff, crit increasers (with tactic), AOE stagger. These are some of the core skills that make up the Chosen/BO hybrid, and why running a knight is incredibly crucial to running successful parties. The Chosen/BO still have a morale pump, however, which make the combo better overall. The other two tanks are meh except for being a WW SM bot, which is also a meh playstyle. So, no, destro tanks aren't "OP," but this is why order is lacking tanks.

black orc bubble in zerg fights. legend. well spotted mate.

To be honest I'm glad I don't play EU so I don't have to listen to you whine about destro and boast about how good you are in the same breath.

to be honest i'm glad i don't play NA so i don't have to roflstomp na players all the time and listen your whines about how we're cheating :/

Stop it now.

[Druin]

Ok.

[shaggyboomboom]

Spoiler:

Ur all trash, all hail fusion best guild, l2p scrubs and 6v6 meee

No.

[Collateral]

Why does every thread have to turn into trash talk and get locked..

[Haojin]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Collateral]

You kinda started it tho

[Penril]

Correct. I was about to lock this thread, but instead I will simply heavily moderate the next troll posts. After all, this clearly falls into the "balance discussion outside of the BDF" category.

For example, I see Tesq talking a lot about Sorcs yet his is level 16. And some people are using the EU/NA argument, clearly trying to troll. Those posts will be removed and users will receive a warning from now on.

[dansari]

Spoiler:

Chosen and BO bring so much group utility that order has no real comparison except knight. You can even bring BG now for easy superpunts or to beef up one DPS in particular, although the power of chosen aura, BO absorb/slows, and morale pumping is better.. Order didn't really bring it upon themselves; the class makeup and class aesthetics are what drive archetype numbers.

Super punts in rvr? Meh. When you're facing 2 wbs, st punts won't do much for you, plus people are very likely to have all the immunities. Sure bg has nice st buffs and debuffs, but it's still not really a wb material tank, not to even mention lack of morale pump. I think we can all agree on that.

Bo bubble? You mean the 500 dmg over 5 seconds that you have to use on a target in melee range, and can therefore be defended? Yea no. It's a waste of a gcd and a waste of htl/chm channel time. 500 dmg is one hit from a single bw, which hit for even more really. Sw hits for over 1k easily. If you instead of that bubble used htl, you actually give a chance for your team to defend these attacks, not just mitigate a small amount of it. So I hope you can see that it's a useless ability for rvr.

Bo snare? The tactic puts it on a god damn 10s cd. It's beyond useless in rvr. Sure you can take kd for chop fasta buff that will put it on a 5s cd, and actually make it similar to kotbs snare, but you still need a tactic and an ability from high up in a tree to make it work. Not to mention you obviously won't have chop fasta up all the time, meaning you can't maintain 100% uptime, unlike kotbs ofc (that only needs one tactic which costs lousy 4 points, I don't know which kotbs wouldn't take that). I don't use the snare anymore, in any play style I do.

Saying sm is useless in wbs is simply not true. It brings double resist debuff. That alone is a reason to take it. It has a bubble that is actually worth taking. Over 700 dmg absorb, that he can cast whenever he wants. Ww is not as useless as people might think either (spammable aoes from bws). I dare to say sm is one of the tankier tanks in wbs. If you spec right, you can last very long. It has very nice tactics that stack with abilities. I play sm in wbs, so don't think I'm making all this up in my head. I'm usually among the last to die.

Sure order doesn't have morale pump on tanks. But it has morale pump on ams and bws. And since the nerf to bo snare, it's even easier to kite while you build morales. Snares from ams and kotbs, free bubbles from sm etc. Build up to bw m4, and see things melt from 100 feet. Then push in with tanks and seal the deal

To conclude, bw is far from obsolete in rvr, where you will get the majority of your kills very easily.

Fair points. Though my argument is that SM doesn't have much control abilities, so even if you can spec tanky, you don't bring much control to rvr, which is part of the point of playing tank. (It's like, sure you might be tanky but your opponents can just ignore you because you're not doing anything but guarding and WW). And why would you need a double spirit debuff? I don't think order has much/any AOE spirit damage.

[covenn]

Spoiler:

Outside of liking the class or nostalgia, is there any real reason to play a BW (or Sorc for that matter?) ? The disrupt changes combined with the combustion mechanic seem like running a SW would be better in every circumstance open world or in scenarios. They do everything as good, if not better, without blowing themselves up and creating more healer load in the process.

I understand why the combustion mechanic is what it is and the need during the live game, but with the changes here, it seems like it should probably be revisited.

Bright Wizards have been obsolete in small scale fights for at least 11 months. No news there. However they still excel at killing undergeared and careless players in RVR. As long as that is still a thing you will see BWs in RVR. Just dont expect to do much against competent players.

Yeah, that is pretty much what I am seeing as well.

I think there is a lot of undo bias against the classes still left over from live where they were over powered. I mean seriously, even the devs refer to the class as 'fire clowns'. haha

Outside of killing under levels and under geared people open field, they are worthless in small scale fights or premade scenario fights. Really, the better choice for ranged by far is a SW/SH.