Offtank dps : 2H Blackguard or Black Orc SnB?

[Penril]

It is not just pressing a button it is about knowing when to press it and on who to press it.

Everyone should stop using this for defending Cho/KotBS since it applies to all 24 classes in the game. However, 22 of them actually need to pay attention to their mechanics (some more than others) as well while Chosen/Kotbs don't. That's the issue. It's really simple, what part is difficult for you guys to understand?

[Dalgrimar]

Well there is a difference in assisting a target and controlling the fight trough CC.

[Penril]

Yes. Your point?

[th3gatekeeper]

Hi everyone,

So I want to lvl up an "offtank dps" if you know what I mean. I levled both BG and BO to lvl 10 and both of their gameplay is cool for me (even if BO's one seems more "dynamic"). Same for the style, i love DE and I love the clunky aspect of the BO.

The thing is I did some research on the forum and it looks like everyone is saying that BO does more damage, he also has the advantage to carry a shield (block chance, hold the lane,...), and he has more utility for a group than the 2H BG (ok he has that 10% crit buff aoe but that's all, isn't it...?).

So is there a point to play a BG rather than a BO for a "tanky dps" in every aspect of the game (PVE/RVR/6man/SC)? Or is the BO better in every way?

PS : English is not my native language, so sorry for the mistakes.

To answer the OP.

This is the only question you need to answer:

Q: Are you OK with using a shield? If yes -> BO.

If no -> BG.


As an "off tank" I think a SnB BO > SnB BG. However a 2H BG > 2H BO.

2H BOs DO have more damage output, but they are noticably squishier where the BG has tactics and abilities that help make them tankier with modest damage output. (Think Damage IN vs Damage Out here) and that is where I think BG wins - 2H.

Sounds like you are Ok using a SnB set up AND sounds like you LIKE the BO mechanic itself (which is a turn off for me personally).

So I would strongly encourage you to roll SnB BO. You will have modest damage output, you will have nice group benefits, and be able to tank/off tank - even if you build more "DPS-Y" as as a SnB that is just fine, you will provide moderate damage, and still be tanky. Just PLEASE do not turn into one of those Offtard (opposite of Deftard) "DPS Tanks" who go full strength stacking and forgo all parry/block/dodge/disrupt to "DEEPS BRO!" These people are waste of space and should just roll a Mara or something else instead...

TLDR: I think a BO is more your style of play - based on what you wrote.

[Luuca]

Hi everyone,

So I want to lvl up an "offtank dps" if you know what I mean. I levled both BG and BO to lvl 10 and both of their gameplay is cool for me (even if BO's one seems more "dynamic"). Same for the style, i love DE and I love the clunky aspect of the BO.

The thing is I did some research on the forum and it looks like everyone is saying that BO does more damage, he also has the advantage to carry a shield (block chance, hold the lane,...), and he has more utility for a group than the 2H BG (ok he has that 10% crit buff aoe but that's all, isn't it...?).

So is there a point to play a BG rather than a BO for a "tanky dps" in every aspect of the game (PVE/RVR/6man/SC)? Or is the BO better in every way?

PS : English is not my native language, so sorry for the mistakes.

To answer the OP.

This is the only question you need to answer:

Q: Are you OK with using a shield? If yes -> BO.

If no -> BG.


As an "off tank" I think a SnB BO > SnB BG. However a 2H BG > 2H BO.

2H BOs DO have more damage output, but they are noticably squishier where the BG has tactics and abilities that help make them tankier with modest damage output. (Think Damage IN vs Damage Out here) and that is where I think BG wins - 2H.

Sounds like you are Ok using a SnB set up AND sounds like you LIKE the BO mechanic itself (which is a turn off for me personally).

So I would strongly encourage you to roll SnB BO. You will have modest damage output, you will have nice group benefits, and be able to tank/off tank - even if you build more "DPS-Y" as as a SnB that is just fine, you will provide moderate damage, and still be tanky. Just PLEASE do not turn into one of those Offtard (opposite of Deftard) "DPS Tanks" who go full strength stacking and forgo all parry/block/dodge/disrupt to "DEEPS BRO!" These people are waste of space and should just roll a Mara or something else instead...

TLDR: I think a BO is more your style of play - based on what you wrote.

Best answer yet. 10/10

[Kyran]

o answer the OP.

This is the only question you need to answer:

Q: Are you OK with using a shield? If yes -> BO.

If no -> BG.


As an "off tank" I think a SnB BO > SnB BG. However a 2H BG > 2H BO.

2H BOs DO have more damage output, but they are noticably squishier where the BG has tactics and abilities that help make them tankier with modest damage output. (Think Damage IN vs Damage Out here) and that is where I think BG wins - 2H.

Sounds like you are Ok using a SnB set up AND sounds like you LIKE the BO mechanic itself (which is a turn off for me personally).

So I would strongly encourage you to roll SnB BO. You will have modest damage output, you will have nice group benefits, and be able to tank/off tank - even if you build more "DPS-Y" as as a SnB that is just fine, you will provide moderate damage, and still be tanky. Just PLEASE do not turn into one of those Offtard (opposite of Deftard) "DPS Tanks" who go full strength stacking and forgo all parry/block/dodge/disrupt to "DEEPS BRO!" These people are waste of space and should just roll a Mara or something else instead...

TLDR: I think a BO is more your style of play - based on what you wrote.

Thank you for the answer !

Don't worry, I don't want to go full strenght "Offtard", I just want a tank who can deal some good "assist damage" to the party. That's why I don't wanna roll a chosen as everyone says he deals 0 damage.

Actually, I love them so much that i'm gonna lvl both BG and BO, one solo, and one with a friend. Who do you think is the easier to lvl solo? BG or BO?

[GodlessCrom]

Both are gonna be aboit the same level of easy imo. You will mostly be leveling through rvr and they wil play very similarly until the late 20s, where both get their more class defining abilities. Until then its basically snare target, switch guard and keep skull thumper up for BO and keep buffs on for BG.

[peterthepan3]

Both are gonna be aboit the same level of easy imo. You will mostly be leveling through rvr and they wil play very similarly until the late 20s, where both get their more class defining abilities. Until then its basically snare target, switch guard and keep skull thumper up for BO and keep buffs on for BG.

This ^

[GodlessCrom]

I would say very few BGs would slot Unstoppable Fury though. Too many other good tactics. Though if you wanted to go full dps i suppose you might. Couldnt recommend it though. Though BG abilities seem to have uncommonly high tooltip damage so who knows

[Jaycub]

Mechanically speaking the only new thing BG/IB is introducing to players is the off GCD Dark Protector/Oath Friend. The GCD is a hard restriction on ability usage, as well as no matter how good you are at a class you aren't going to get anymore our of an ability than what is stated sans certain abilities like punts and how they are aimed/timed. You know a master BW's fireball isn't hitting any harder than some rand in similar gear.

So all you have to do is learn how to *gasp* put DP/OF on someone while still having the brainpower to keep up with GCD and amend your rotation to say be assisting your mara, but then subconsciously DP say your Zealot that happen to be in range for a quick WP buff then going back to DP your mara, or if you happen to need hatred and no one is in any danger throwing it on a target being hit. Just like SM/BO after you play enough it just happens without having think much if at all.

It's not hard to master these 2 classes, it's that even when mastered they aren't doing as much as the same player on another tank. This is just getting high off your own farts, wanting to be a special snowflake while telling everyone they just don't understand.

Good tank play isn't reliant on abilities, it's how you use core tank mechanics like undefendable interrupts like taunt to stop say a res, or pre target a sorc that's about to blow up someone in your group to stop his hand of ruin. It's swapping guard, challenging, use of morales, using CC effectively to say stop an incoming tank from punting a player in using KD/KB on them, or just really basic **** like keeping your snares up. Use of certain cooldowns like RD so you don't get punted away in a critical moment.

But even more importantly than that it is group play, I don't care how good you are you need to have communication in a group to play at full potential. This games skill comes from group play, communication and execution. There is no individual carry in this game like CSGO. For instance last night me and Zog were guarding our Russian carrylord mieles, we had to crossguard to kite out and as soon as we got to safety mieles was pulled at a weird angle/corner we didn't see and guard had to be swapped instantly, basically while he was in mid air... but because we weren't in comms that didn't happen. Groups also need the setup, other players need to know how to position and kite to make things easier on the tanks, no matter how good a tank player is if his dps players are getting caught/pulled staying in too late etc... he can't help them all. Same group last night both our healers stayed positioned badly for too long and between having to guard each other and mieles we couldn't help and we ended up partially wiping again.

Going back to true mastery of class being subconsciously competent, both healers instantly knew they messed up and being consciously incompetent is how you get to that stage. Players that are stuck being unconsciously incompetent or worse conscious of a mistake but blame others never become good players.

tl:dr it doesn't matter how good you are at ib/bg there isn't some secret path to making them any better than their ceiling allows which is still underperforming BO/CH but not by much.