Return of Reckoning

ifoc ap regen needed very much to keep the pressure sustained. rewards sniping kills (like affliction lock drain soul)

Just stick to the OPs suggestion of 5 second BoC and stop trying to change the class...yet again.

Tankbeardz wrote:Just stick to the OPs suggestion of 5 second BoC and stop trying to change the class...yet again.

But my idea sounds fun....

There has been no comments from the Powers on this subject. My sense is there was a lot of needed focus on the newly released armor sets. I would like this thread's idea reviewed. I think from the thread replies, it should be clear a return to the 5 second cool down for Bolt of Change (along with Snipe) would give the single target Magus viability.

Whitesands wrote:There has been no comments from the Powers on this subject.

And there wont be, the dev that was doing balance work gave up and the new ones are still in trainin and we dont even know if they want any part of balancing any of this.

There is a reason why the balance forums are closed.

bloodi wrote:

Whitesands wrote:There has been no comments from the Powers on this subject.

And there wont be, the dev that was doing balance work gave up and the new ones are still in trainin and we dont even know if they want any part of balancing any of this.

There is a reason why the balance forums are closed.

Whaaaaaaaaaaat?
Who was that?

I thought they closed the balance forum because it was pointless trying to balance abilities/damage when entry level gear was all that was available.

bloodi wrote:

Whitesands wrote:There has been no comments from the Powers on this subject.

And there wont be, the dev that was doing balance work gave up and the new ones are still in trainin and we dont even know if they want any part of balancing any of this.

There is a reason why the balance forums are closed.

I didn't know this. I recall the balancing (fixing) of the melee squig mastery was halted, but didn't know all class balance work was stopped. Hmm.

Even so, patching is still being done and changes to classes are occurring with patches, no? If that is correct, I would think a return to the prior BoC model could be done along with any new patch. The rationale behind the 10 second BoC cool down has been shown to have been flawed through game play.

Whitesands wrote:

bloodi wrote:

Whitesands wrote:There has been no comments from the Powers on this subject.

And there wont be, the dev that was doing balance work gave up and the new ones are still in trainin and we dont even know if they want any part of balancing any of this.

There is a reason why the balance forums are closed.

I didn't know this. I recall the balancing (fixing) of the melee squig mastery was halted, but didn't know all class balance work was stopped. Hmm.

Even so, patching is still being done and changes to classes are occurring with patches, no? If that is correct, I would think a return to the prior BoC model could be done along with any new patch. The rationale behind the 10 second BoC cool down has been shown to have been flawed through game play.

Go back and find the last class mechanic that was touched in the patch notes. It's been a while. Also, you can keep repeating the same thing over and over, it doesn't make your argument any better. You need to provide various situational examples where 5s CD is needed vs a 10s CD.

wargrimnir wrote:
Go back and find the last class mechanic that was touched in the patch notes. It's been a while. Also, you can keep repeating the same thing over and over, it doesn't make your argument any better. You need to provide various situational examples where 5s CD is needed vs a 10s CD.

Thank you for the reply. The change to the 10 second BoC was part of the patch on Dec. 6th. It applied to Engi Snipe as well. Azarael is the person who engaged comments on the issue. He stated in the thread on patch changes:


"Bolt of Change and Snipe were brought down because of complaints about the ease of putting out repeated burst rotations and repeated undefendable attacks at 210ft range. Something had to give to make adjusting the other turrets and daemons viable and avoiding complaints, and that was it.

If a better solution is adjusting the range bonus from the Gun Turret and Pink Horror, then let me know."




So, the change was in response to complaints and Azarael appears non-dogmatic. He is willing to look at other options. Azarael also recognizes that the change is not optimal. He stated:


"While the optimal solution to Bolt of Change is to fix its range at 150ft regardless of any increases in play, this is something that's currently beyond us (and will most likely remain beyond us as we'd have to figure out how to do this on the client post-client control.)"

Azarael further stated:


"We can't have the Magus (and the Engineer) relying upon abilities which have a huge range to power all their burst. We need to look at bringing other aspects of the class in to generate burst, possibly using tactics."



So, there is also the desire to move away from a heavy reliance on a single ability to generate burst. The argument for the change is tied to range and repeated attackability. I don't see why the noted complaints have standing. The range point only has meaning if one is talking about a situation where the magus/engi was able to be stationary for the full time frame needed to get to maximum range. If the opposing side allows this to occur, where does the fault lay? Moreover, both sides have a class that can match it's opposite. If a magus is a threat at said range, an engi is as well. This seems to be an argument for including the mirror class as a counter and so increases their value among their own side.

I don't see the Bolt of Change rotation being easy, as the conditions to be at full force require being stationary for a rather long time: something the flow of combat rarely allows, unless in a siege situation. If in a siege, the opposing side has walls so there is cover.

I'm not clear on the force of the 'repeated burst rotation' complaint. Even at full force a magus Bolt of Change rotation cannot kill a target if at full health. It would require concentrated fire, or the same target remained in range with no healing so as to be hit with another rotation to be dropped. If the opposing group lacks healers or has distracted healers, where does the fault lay?



You asked for various situations where a 5 second CD is needed over a 10 second one. I read Azareal's reference to burst to be the same as killing power. If burst is decreased, then killing power is also decreased. The single target mastery is intended to be the line with the most raw killing power, concentrated against an individual. BoC is the signature ability of the mastery line. If it is on a 10 second CD, then that impacts the entire mastery. The situations where the 5 second CD would be needed is any situation where the decision would be made in bringing a magus for a RDPS role vs. a different DPS class. Magi cannot match other RDPS in damage therefore they become a marginalized. If class viability is a goal, which I think the great work of the team behind this game shows, then the single target mastery of Magus needs to be able to compete in killing power with other RDPS. The 5 second BoC did this, as magi would be seen as both desirable by groups and a potential threat, instead of a simple renown piñata.



Note the final post in the Dec. 6 patch notes from Azarael:



"Wasn't BoC changed to the 5 sec cooldown and moved to the 13pt spot because of the cooldown change? if we are going back to 10 sec cooldown, shouldn't be we be moving it back to the original spot?

If not, i like the idea of changing some tactics. As a mastery tactic Changer's Blessing could be changed to a 50% crit damage tactic for all path of havoc skills. Similarly located at the 7 pt tactic slot like WE and Mara crit damage tactics. Could add the 50% heal into swift flames tactic."



Azarael links the 5 second cool down to the change in ability position in the mastery line. As long as the 10 second cool down for BoC remains, BoC should be returned to its old mastery position, as was explained in this thread in earlier comments: as it stands BoC has less killing power and is less accessible for magi to use. The 13 point placement changes many of the prior magus mastery builds because now only single target magus can get it. So, for the class it is the worse of both worlds: the single target magus is not viable and all other magus builds are cut off from having BoC as any option at all.

User warned for this post. Do not abuse the quote feature to misrepresent staff.

- wargrimnir