Return of Reckoning

Physical DoTs are reduced by armor, yeah.

Test I always thought CC was "handled" outside of the "20 slots" well except from being displayed there

Why ...

• disables (KD, STUN) and their Immunities felt like a differens mechanic all together
  don't stack either you are down/stunned or you aren't
  as you point out immunity negated cc for it's duration instead of preventing cc or remove cc
  no cleanses*

What about silence, disarm

• My best guess would be that silence, disarm which was no true disable more like a soft-cc. You could move quaff potions etc and they were "handled" in 20 slot and therefore could be cleansed. I don't think there was immunities for them either.

That could cure some headaches

* Well Eng and magus had one but that was added late

Tesq wrote:

If we wanna dig more another form of debuff are CC , but there are cc and cc, for exemple stag can never be replaced even if is a damging and not a debuff, instead root is marked as debuff.
I think that cc where mosltly fixed handly 1 by 1.
This hypotesis is supported by black guard and kobs knock back, becouse they work differently by any other knock back in game (just a fast example: both KB auto de-active itself if target have immunity buff to KB, this is not write on skill nor it's present in game in any other type off cc and skill )

i have to conlcude to this that CC skills and anti-cc skills work for their own way, have their own rule for being removed or ingored, and cannot be replaced, while the only exeption to this are for sure many form of snare, that are treat exatly as told above for dot and about this, i am 100% sure snare are always cleanseable or removeable/ingoreable in some way.

dont know silence, disarm, etc but generaly what is marked as curse, hex and haliment is always cleanse-able so should be no problem here ...but..... some form of knock down are aliment, but knock dowm cannot be cleanse.............................................

..........headache......

-exept for snare and silence/ disarm (other ?) that are cleanseable (think)
-stag, root knockdown aren't cleanseable

For last all cc can be ingored as well if you have an appropriate cc-immunity skill (Black ork, sovereign or renow one for exemple)

Immunity do not remove cc mark on buff slot but instead ingore their effects, so cc that occupy a slot can both not be removed nor reaplce until their duration fall. Furthermore even if under immunity effect cc can be used on target but character will not get affect by cc if immunity is active in all case exept snare.

If i have a 5 second duraction of immunity to all cc used on me i will get no effect but if i get snared for 10 second when those 5 sec of immunity gone i will be snared by 5 seconds.
Snare is the only cc that try to re-apply is own eff every second while other do it only in the moment when skill properly hit.

One small drawback with the 20 slot hard limit is that you can fill it up with buffs, potions, linins and auras thus reducing the slots of possible damage. Especially if your healer is rotating hots.

Bozzax wrote:One small drawback with the 20 slot hard limit is that you can fill it up with buffs, potions, linins and auras thus reducing the slots of possible damage. Especially if your healer is rotating hots.

not so true in focus situation there are more incoming dot and debuff than buff and hot so reducing the slot thx to self buff and cc etc it's ok, it just help balance an active situation with an half-passive solution.

Bozzax wrote:Test I always thought CC was "handled" outside of the "20 slots" well except from being displayed there

Why ...

• disables (KD, STUN) and their Immunities felt like a differens mechanic all together
  don't stack either you are down/stunned or you aren't
  as you point out immunity negated cc for it's duration instead of preventing cc or remove cc
  no cleanses*

What about silence, disarm

• My best guess would be that silence, disarm which was no true disable more like a soft-cc. You could move quaff potions etc and they were "handled" in 20 slot and therefore could be cleansed. I don't think there was immunities for them either.

That could cure some headaches

* Well Eng and magus had one but that was added late

Not sure i've understand all but , these 20 spot are all-inclusive of all things in game, i have screen that show all togheter in those 20 spot, then it's impossible for me know if there was a hide section for buff/debuff my screen show me max 20 things and i saw dot hot etc get replace in those spot it's all i can do.

(for personal judgement i think not, cos there where no advice for which immunity enemy had or not, so you should had watch your enemy buff / debuff for know it ---->so if they wanted put a separe space for cc they should have put then in different bar and not vice versa with some dot and hot being hide. So those 20 spot are currently truly all-inclusive)
(EDIT: the hell i saw it now, there is at least 1 hide buff in this image, when you done the rr 100 you get a blue buff thay you always had when you are big, so if there isn't atm it must be some short of hide overflow or something like that,you had right but mm since we cannot know the number of the hide spot what about 10 hide spot? dont think it could be hide more than half of buff section)

About immunity i checked now, resolute defense (renow skill) tell you that you will be not affect to crow controll for 10 seconds, so yea that kind of immunity exist and even SM and bo immunity of 5 sec give immunity to silence and disarm, sov def set too it give you immunity to all cc exept snare.

For this it was hard for me just consider them in a way or in another, but after all consideration

-Snare (this one for sure), silence, disarm should be so cleanseable
-stag, root, knockdow not

every cc can have an immunity ? yes
what re-apply itself after immunity fade? ---> snare ( and root..and maybe silence not sure about those two )

Another problem it's server auto immunity, after a cc is used on you character it get apply a immunity timer to that cc and all cc below is rank this mean there is a pyramid off cc and not all cc give the same immunity, and not all cc are in the same pyramid.
From the recostruction of what i remember i create those two lists in past on forum when i suggest on bioware forum a patch to balance cc x realm but, that fix have nothing to do with these lists.
They should be the correct lists for cc on official server.

what is before give immunity to what is after, so if target get KB cannot be KD but can still be root

root > KB> kD (cc)
root >pull > stag > silence/disarm (soft cc)


Yes stag is in soft cap cos unlike root , kd and kb it can be break by single hit, if you add the fact that when used it give immunity to what it's after and it's the only cc to be breakable with no immunity make it balance where it is


Both lists work independently but root always give immunity to all
My only concern It's just 1 cc that it's Pull, i remember that after mara usualy pull someone, all other ppl as fast as possible kd him, but i cant remember if it was possible to even KB him or not, if that's the case i think it will need a 3rd immunity cos pull+ kd + Kb is a too hard cc combo.
So it should be put an exeption for pull and add a immunity to only KB when used

(EDIT got a flash of a BO kb badly a pulled shadow warrior, pull let you both kd or kb but only one of those)

so pull exeption will be

pull=KD/KB but not vice versa( this mean that either use kD and KB after pull give immunity to either kD or KB but kd and kB give no immunity to pull and this is correct as far as i remember a kd target was still able to get pulled)



Then there is immunity timer, every type of immunity timer have different duration;

-immunity after root= 60 sec

-immunity after stag=30 sec( it should have been changed to 20 cos stag was nerfed to 3 second)

-immunity after KB/KB= 20 seconds

-Immunity after Which hunter stag and back-jump( actualy it was lower.... like 6 seconds.... it should be made 20 sec like other stag, just stupid be 6 sec immunity i remember which elf was 20 second in fact)

-Immunity after silence/disarm 20 seconds

-immunity to pull = 40 sec ( not sure about it .....if not mistake it was 10/20 second difference from the CD of mara pull and the immunity so it should be 30+10/20 =40/50 sec but a mara maybe can remember it better)


IMP: remember that those immunity give, for the entire timer, immunity to all cc after that one in the sequence as i wrote above

KD note:
I don't know if currently melee KD are set as 3 sec but this is a bug and /or wrong change from 1.4.6/7/8, it always been 2 sec KD for every melee classes in game, 3 sec kd is only for all tank exept BG and IB that have their own value (5 and 4 seconds)

I'll just say some things I remember.

There are a small amount of dots that can become non-disruptable eg. Rune Priest w/tactic "Potent Runes" + Rune of Immolation.

Most dots use a lot of Crit scaling (same as other abilities I guess) to balance. Eg. Ignite low crit and Boiling Blood very high. Most non-important dots are very weak in terms of crit chance, I think.

There is a few different "types" of dots, ofc, some are similar but just about every class has some slight variation to their dots.

Tesq wrote:

Bozzax wrote:One small drawback with the 20 slot hard limit is that you can fill it up with buffs, potions, linins and auras thus reducing the slots of possible damage. Especially if your healer is rotating hots.

not so true in focus situation there are more incoming dot and debuff than buff and hot so reducing the slot thx to self buff and cc etc it's ok, it just help balance an active situation with an half-passive solution.

An "optimal group" will have less viable slots "open" for queuing damage on them compared to less optimal groups. Especially if the all use pots, lining, regen pots

Not a big thing

If I remember correctly Aegis + Aegis II was hidden when you filled up all 20-slots. Not really sure though

ah dont look at me

DoTs kept tickling after caster died- remember killing a few toons with dots that kept running after I died.

Also ya, from what I remember DoT from each character was tracked separately.

Zxul wrote:DoTs kept tickling after caster died- remember killing a few toons with dots that kept running after I died.

Also ya, from what I remember DoT from each character was tracked separately.

That's normal I believe. But with BW/Sorc they lose combustion at death so those DOTS become less than 1/4 power (roughly)