(Mythic) origins of balance

[footpatrol2]

If your taking a Warband and running a melee train 2 SH stabba's isn't a bad horrible idea because you can cycle on coms bad gas as protection to your 4 other choppa's and offensive potential.

We did the same thing with our Slayers in the dwarf racials with shatter limbs. If we were in protracted fight we would cycle shatter limbs so its always up. We'd always cycle shatter limbs regardless.

AoE pull + AoE knockdown then Shatter limbs
Slayer 1 Calls out on coms Shatter up.
slayer 1 starts counting to 5 sec's Call out on coms Shatter down.
2nd slayer now knows he needs to shatter soon. he is given 5 sec's to be in a decent position.
Shatter up counts 5 sec's Calls out on coms Shatter down.
Repeat.
Same can be done with bad gas.

This is how we would cycle abilities. You have to give preparatory time for the other player to know what he needs to do.

This game goes so retarded deep into coordination and organization.

[Penril]

Shatter Limbs is not the same as Bad Gas though. SL is on a mdps class who is always close to his enemies and probably has guard all the time (assuming a coordinated group) making it easy for them to apply it, while BG is on a rdps class who would prefer to stay at around 90ft away from them and rarely gets guard (it goes to Choppas, WE's and Maras; even sorcs if the group is bombing).

Bad Gas is viable in large scale oRvR for sure. But the best spec for SHs? Not by a long shot.

[roadkillrobin]

Thing is you don't need the healdebuff when you drop 10k Undefendeble Morale dmg.
My guess is that the people who don't get the SH Stabbity spec havn't run Bomb Groups enough to understand how they function. There's NO POINT in running a ranged SH in a bomb group, the rest of your teamates are PBAOE specs. You should be to. If you stay in the back you gonna get ganked by melee trains coz you get singled out. By sticking with the frontline and creating AoE radius of dmg you're way much safer from this. Coz everyone who runs into this Radius is gonna take shitloads of dmg. Thats how bomb groups work.

[footpatrol2]

Non of the spec's are best. Its what tools do you want to use with your group composition. The Stabba spec essentially makes the SH a hybrid class. I'm purely talking about 12 man + not 6 man.

If i'm running a greenskinz melee train 2 SH with bad gas is protection for my Choppa's that hit like freight trains. And it screws with all abilities. It isn't just defensive.

The melee train is getting a WS buff/armor buff from BO da boss. A toughness buff from m2 bo or da toughest bo from savin me hide. Or Random stat steals from brawler bo. Potentially even a higher toughness buff from DSU.

Tali composition on the Stabba SH would have to be played around with to see what works. Can we stack armor on the Stabba SH and him not require a guard like how I did with the Runepriest. Or does the Stabba SH need a dedicated guard. If so the choppa and SH would have to have a dedicated guard. Kinda not a big deal. How much damage can the SH stabba do? when combined with Waaagh and a armor debuff coming from BO. If the Stabba SH does not take heaps of damage with a guard then thats good it allows the shamans to focus heal the choppas more.

If your taking a Stabba SH you'll probably want 2 to cycle bad gas. I don't know for sure but I suspect that a Stabba SH is tougher then a choppa if geared accordingly. And the cycling of bad gas adds to the durability of the 12 man.

So glass cannon greenskinz melee train. 12 man
4 Bo's 4 Choppa's 4 shamans
I'm not sure if the shamans can keep up with the healing required with this set up.

More durable Greenskinz melee train
4 Bo's 2 Choppa's 2 Stabba SH 4 shamans.

[Tesq]

Thing is you don't need the healdebuff when you drop 10k Undefendeble Morale dmg.
My guess is that the people who don't get the SH Stabbity spec havn't run Bomb Groups enough to understand how they function. There's NO POINT in running a ranged SH in a bomb group, the rest of your teamates are PBAOE specs. You should be to. If you stay in the back you gonna get ganked by melee trains coz you get singled out. By sticking with the frontline and creating AoE radius of dmg you're way much safer from this. Coz everyone who runs into this Radius is gonna take shitloads of dmg. Thats how bomb groups work.

ye all pack togheter on wb leader, less problem with where to focus, less problem with guard range...if a sorc can do it, then a squig can do it too

[roadkillrobin]

Armor debuff from Black Orc isn't as important as Follow Me Lead when boosting physical AoE dmg. Coz obsviulsy a weapon skill buff would boost the armor pen on all targets that you AoE and secondly. Armor debuff is single target. If you got time to use it on something relevant then sure it's nice.
Also stacking armor on a melee SH isn't really that great coz Gas Squig dies really easy from splash AoE. thats why All By Myself is alot better to run. Flat % dmg increaser works after armor. So they are much better then Main stats increasers like Brute Force. You got 15% from being in close range and 25% for dropping the Squig. Thats 40% dmg increase. Thats quit alot.
Also you need to have gurard on you 24/7 to make this build work.
The weakness of the Greenskin Morale Pump melee WB is ofc Shamans being subpar healers. Nomather how you spec em they got problem keeping up. If they were in line with Zealots it wouldn't be a problem but they are not.

[footpatrol2]

Maybe run all by meself tactic with gas squig. Eat gas squig prior to it dieing so are able to get in position with some armor then eat it before it dies or you engage in combat then you still have your 25% dmg buff from tactic.

We also have access to 4 breath of mork on the melee train which can be staggered.

So... I know i will get crap from but the you got nothin tactic from da boss bo helps with the healing a little bit from the BO. It used to be more powerful. We used this in the High elf groups. It did get a nerf on live back in the day along with da toughest war cray self healing ability.

[footpatrol2]

so I've only been talking about 12 man groups. If you blow up the greenskinz to 24 man thats on comms organized like any other warband premade. Knows how to work with each other. Learns how to Stagger AoE snares comfortably.

You have access to 16 AoE snares... with the potential for more because you could replace a SH with a dps shaman. After the bomb grp was made.

let that sink in.

This stuff is super powerful in my opinion.

[roadkillrobin]

You Got Noffin' is just way to bad tbh. It ticks for bout 50-60 every 3d second. It's fluff healing. Won't save anyone. You need to have one BO's spamming Savin' Me Hide every Da Best plan in each group tho.

[footpatrol2]

I guess the first 4 tanks would go

2 da toughest BO's
1 Da boss
1 Brawler for stat steal or 2 da boss. For bomb.

If ran at warband add.

2 da toughest
2 da brawler.
Two stat steal BO's can keep targets anything near bomb grp pretty much maxed debuffed.

It really really sucks that instant rez got nerfed. Really hurts HE/Greenskin racial grps.

So For shamans I'm thinkin for 12 man 3 path of mork healers 1 path of da green maxed out.
Path of da green shaman in Wrecker choppa grp for chop faster.

Path da Green shaman gives access to instant rez's AoE toughness/str/intel/ballistics debuff's, instant AoE heals.

when chop faster goes spam fury of da green this actually heals a lot. keep a choppa as a defensive target and he's on rez duty. I've done this on a AM with whisper in a 6 man. In a 6 man there is too much pressure. its a complicated class to play and balance. It requires a really good player in my opinion. But I think it is able to be more accomplished as you add more grps. In addition something very nice about the path of da green is your don't need line of sight to heal your defensive target. You just need LoS to your damaging target.

In the 6 man HE grp I'd keep my defensive target the other AM or myself since he was always getting focused. I'd have a dedicated guard. If i got trained I'd get whisper and spam energy of vaul. I'm pretty sure Path of Vaul and Path of da Green are not affected by heal debuff's. But are affected by like challenge and what-not.