Return of Reckoning

Torquemadra wrote:Been running as a grace healer, the detaunt is nice but there is still too much of a loss in healing when chasing a battery to heal off and mitigation stifling the heals. Its far from effective heals and not a viable dps (though kinda fun)

Spitball ideas -

Attach a hot component to Grace of Sigmar so some heals are flowing when you cant reach a battery

Add some sort of aoe heal the equal of a percentage of the damage that the grace WP is taking, the benefit aka changing shield of Sigmar to something actually useful

A fix to Sigmar's Shield would give us means to heal outside of melee, assuming you can activate in the first place. As for a HoT from Radiance, via tactic? It wouldn't fix the root of the problem - We have no tools to get to and stay in melee. If the enemy team wants you gone, you won't remain long, and you have few plays you can make.

I don't think we need anymore ranged healing on Grace, we already have base access to about four, we just need better ability to use them. Divine Mend and Healing Hand are 'fine', but as we don't stack Willpower and Divine Fury/Fanaticism are both -20% healing the two abilities are fairly crippled. Even with a crit, Divine Mend won't heal more than a single attack from a mDPS.

Resolute Defenses (Renown) will stop them from CCing you out of the fight, but is impossibly expensive right now for more than base rank, and is unreliable. It only buys you 10 seconds and has a cool down of 5 minutes. At most, it stalls the process, but you will be kicked from the melee once it runs dry.

Focused Mind (Morale 2) provides 10 seconds of Disarm, Root, Snare, and Silence immunity. It won't save you from a punt or knockdown, but it can buy you time. Of course, this means giving up Rampaging Siphon or Divine Replenishment, both of which can give your team a hell of a push forward to press the attack, for the sake of some personal sustain.

Rebuke wrote:Thepollie, do you run grace in premade? Judging from the problems you are describing I get the feeling you dont. We have a dedicated Grace WP in the guild (sanctified) and he is doing just fine in sc's. Getting focused by sorcs single target damage is a problem for every order career atm.

But lets be real, you pretty much have nothing to fear from destro mdps and tanks, destro needs to have a counter to deal with melee WP and thats ranged. You can aoe detaunt ranged and request a short but timely guard from your tank friend whenever the need arises.

I can imagine that if you run solo it is pure hell doing sc' s sometimes.

I've run Grace, yes. Lately I've been experimenting with Leading the Prayer, and haven't the slot space for it. And for personal reasons, I can't request a guard, and have to rely on them noticing I need it and swapping it over. I've run both Solo and SCs, and I find myself being routinely focused into oblivion, disarmed, and punted out of the fight.

Edit- Actually just realized you may mean the spec, not the tactic.

Torquemadra wrote:Add a snare component to smite and/or Judgement, perhaps tie to a tactic, Grace of Sigmar would keep this for Grace viability

Add a speed proc - I dont really like this idea because I see it as needing to be around 30% to be useful and we dont need WPs running around like shamans on crack

Simply, no. For a few reasons.

1) We are already starved for tactic slots. You can not fix our problems by adding tactics to help us, when we can't even use the ones we have already.

2) I really don't like the idea of Salvation back-line healing with AoE snares.

I don't believe we necessarily need a buff to our snares. Especially once we have Tier 4, we'll have a means to AoE snare with 100% uptime. Our problem is that we have no means to counter the mass spam of snares and roots that every SC is packed with.

Torquemadra wrote:Did you happen to read what I wrote? I suggested adding it to what is a deep spec VITAL grace tactic, without which you are not playing a GRACE warrior priest rendering both your points irrelevant.

The point was to give a GRACE wp some functionality to be able to Melee heal which is why its in the GRACE thread....

Uh-huh. I did reads.

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=wp; ... ;;;0:0:0:0:

I don't think Grace WP needs any further modifications in T3, as it stands. The jury is still out for me on whether 100% uptime for the 2h AoE detaunt is OK, but I can definitely say that I feel that the class works acceptably enough in T3, and knowing that in the future the game will change because of the ability to off-spec into Salvation or Wrath, I'd rather not make other, more major reworks yet.

Agreed. I believe we're solid for T3, at least. T4 may need changes, but it can wait until we actually have access and can test that properly. I'd still like for Sigmar's Shield to undergo a change of its own, granted.

As for the AoE detaunt, I've not found the supposed "100% uptime" too severe. I've been finding several ways around it, including positioning and using Silences/knockdowns just before it ends to prevent it from being immediately restored.

Still not a replacement for Guard, but it's still nice.

Grace WP solid at T3 ? Pfft, not a chance, go run every damn time out of enemy focus. 1h and Purple book or Salvation with 2h.

it certainly helps if your grp pays attention to the WP spec.
when im in grace and guarded,with a switched on grp.the heals flow pretty good,as does the damage

a lot of people are so used to a Salvation WP on the field,they forget how to adjust their play style to support and be supported by a grace WP.

Permastun/death is still an issue
a tactic like stubborn as stone would be an easy fix
reduces the KD duration time by 50% while still granting immunity from the effect

PartizanRUS wrote:Grace WP solid at T3 ? Pfft, not a chance, go run every damn time out of enemy focus. 1h and Purple book or Salvation with 2h.

Yeah, I have to concede the point - Grace still sucks hard against anything that's not a PUG. KB+snare, Guard+high mitigation, KD or other attack-preventing CC and either you die or the other healer does instead. It's just not worth it.

Dunno if this is possible, but how about if you removed the healdebuff from Divine Fury and Fanticism for just healing hand??? And the same to all other healers imo.

Well, those are all part of the ~4 core issues identified. It was always going to take about the same number of stages to reach viability.

The melee proc to solve MAD would make offspec heals more practical after a KB. Sigmar's Radiance changes would work around mitigation.

So it comes down to when the community is ready for the next change. I hate to bring mirrors into this but a big part of that will be managing the perception that one faction is being buffed and the other is not.