Return of Reckoning

You should also take def jewel set , help a lot your survivability.
Do sc to have enough médaillon for def weapons .

Grunbag wrote:Cannot play without expert for now , as extra ammo too ! But that's because of my spec I think , when I'm closequarter all the time and need to spam keg fast .
What is your spec ?

RoR.builders - Engineer

I am full grenadier (I don't remember the last time I used gunblast). I like grenadier because it allows me a couple distinct options with only gear and tactic changes, it's skirmish range, you are relying on practice, offense, situational awareness and luck for survivability versus tankiness (tinker) or distance (rifle) which makes it extremely fun and exciting. This build is not that good for attacking from or towards keep walls.

Renown for both specs - as much crit that you can buy - the remainder is deft defender (the crit is key for the damage imo. You will rely on your gear and your situational awareness for survivability)

Mobile Grenadier: Belt - Morale. Back - BS/AP. Jewels - BS/AP and BS/Morale. Armor - Full merc with a mix of armor and BS tally. Weapons - offensive SC weps mix of BS and armor tally. Tactics - Throwing arm, Well Oiled, Masterful Aim, Coordinated Fire. Morale - Concealment, Focused Mind, Cannon Smash. I end up with about 2800 armor, 950 BS, 5k wounds, 21% crit

They big key to being mobile with good dmg is Coordinated Fire and Bombardment Turret stacks. You will be floating about 40-80 ft of the main skirmish. Set the turret 20-40ft behind you so you still get stacks built but if you need to retreat you will have maximum up-time on stacks. I just kind of start with some aoe dotting until you settle on a target (hopefully one that your teammates are focusing) You will place 2-3 dots and then Signal Flare because you want to bury it. This makes the target take 15% more dmg from EVERYTHING. Place the rest of your dots (replace Acid Bomb if it has been cleansed) and spam Firebomb. Throw Flashbang Grenade as well because its higher dmg but be aware you can save it for healers ressing or shammy/sorc channeling. Well Oiled is key for this build because you will be somewhat squishy and have very decent DPS but you can't waste any time. You ALWAYS want to be able to cast grenades on the move even during an extended period of retreat. Those extra seconds are also key when dotting up a target during offensive advances. Basically you never want to wast time casting for a turret. You need three casts minimum after the turret to get that Signal Flare sufficiently buried. Its pretty simple so you can spend the rest of your time focusing on situational awareness because you WILL need it.


Tanky Grenadier Belt - Morale. Back - Battle Brew. Jewels - 3pc The Winds Impervious set and BS/Morale. Armor - 3pc Anni and two other preferrably with crit and all slotted with best armor or tou (I like armor) tally you can get. Weapons - offensive SC weps mix of BS and armor tally. Tactics - Throwing arm, Expert Skirmisher, Ancestral Inheritance, Bandolier. Morale - Concealment, Focused Mind, Cannon Smash. I end up with about 4200 armor, 500 BS, 5kish wounds, 20ish% crit.

Basically everything above is still relevant except that you are trading DPS for survivability. You don't have Coordinated Fire so your job is to really supply a steady stream of DPS pressure, assist your back lines, stagger and use napalm on enemy back-lines and basically be tanky enough to move into more dangerous territory to snare somethings etc. You should be able to have a much better chance to survive those troubling times such as the annoying ass pug tank that catches you behind the line etc. It allows you more seconds of exposure to enemy RDPS. You can be sloppier with your game-play. This is a good pug build and I consider it "training wheels" for the build above. (WE are still a big problem and still require a special kind of OH **** pot pot pot)

Misc Notes: The mobile build is AP hungry so you will need lots of AP gear. Insta turret and self destruct is good for escape. Always use self destruct first rather than the root so you still have the option to use Concussion Grenade and/or your tanks can still punt. Cast Focused Mind if you get pulled! Generally Barbed Wire is the last resort in a larger melee (although on a WE pop I sometimes use it first and experience will teach you when to use it). Carry AP pots so you can flee but still cast turret and use a dot or two. Always juke side to side when casting so you're harder to for ranged dps to target. Always have a plan B for retreat so always know where you can break LoS. Use the other order as meat shields (Others should die first but always assist if you can. Don't be a bitch.) Move Move Move Move. Grenadier is mobile for a purpose. You should never be standing still. While spamming firebomb, anticipate where you need to be next and get there.

Finally, its just a fact that you can't win them all. I still learn something almost every time I play this build so its a work in progress. This toon won't spike like a BW or be as mobile as a SW but its a very good in-between and totally viable. I'm not sure how meta it is so if that's your thing roll a BW and rope a bunch of people into assisting you. But I think maybe Volgo could be totally on board with a three tank/Grenadier meta =P =P.

@Porkstar:
Two very good grenadier builds.
Mobile Grenadier is a more focused killer build.
Tanky Grenadier is more in group AoE pressure build.

@porkstar : very insterresting build , it'll help a lot of new grenadier !
You are made your build around crit and moral (for m2 I guess ?)
When I'll have some time , I'll post my build here and how I play it.

I play support tree (full tinkerer path) cause I feel that it makes big difference in a fight , engineer got a lot of awesome tools and CC that can turn the fight to your advantage.

Here the build
RoR.builders - Tinkerer Support Build

The main source of my damages provide from tinkerer path (blunderbuss blast , friction burn, static discharge, lightning rod) and I also use all the time keg. Thats why I spent all points in tinkerer path to max damage and keg heal .
Gear : 4 pièces of annihilator , and I use 1 chest piece with 3% reducing change getting crit hit with armor talis
Belt :T4 elf inf
Back : Battle brew Backpack
Jewel : skaven ring with armor talisman , Set of def jewel
Weapons : def sc weapon with armor talis
RR points : full toughness , at least 3 rank of dodge /disrupt, and 1 rank of reduce change to be crit hit

Def stats : 4400 armor , 550 toughness , 0% chance getting crit hit , 650/800 each resist , 6k wounds , 24% dodge disrupt (without flameturret buff)
Off stats : really poor 380 BS , 0% crit but dps is not your main goal.

The key in tinkerer gameplay is the CC immune management . Use CC at the right time ,on the right players, at the right place.

To understand how to manage immune, you have to keep in mind that there is two different immune.
let's make a list of engineer CC ability :

1st group of immune :
Snares : barble wire
Knockback : Concussive grenade , strafin run
Pull : Electromagnet
All those abilities gives the same immune , it means that if you use strafin run of a destro group you can't use electromagnet after for exemple.

2nd group of immune :
Mezz : landmine
Knockdown : self destruction , stoping power (tactic)
Disarm / silence : crack shot
Same as other group using of of those abilities would gives a immune for all those effect .

So don't use CC for nothing , when I see engineer that put landmine everywhere to prevent a WE Inc that makes me mad : a landmine do not unstealth WE and it gives WE a immune to disarm for exemple .

Check everytime which imm une your target has to not use your CC for nothing, and use the one that would work properly .

Due to range nerf , tinkerer has to stay in melee (close to tanks and mdPS for best heal keg) . I deploy my flameturret in the memee , giving ap to all allies that stand near it, then starting spamming keg.
Before do a magnet rotation I have to debuff healer castime . For this I use Concussive Mine tactic (use landmine as soon as you can on healer /caster, even if they are immune to Mezz they got the castime increase debuff). That's the harder part cause due to range nerf of flame turret , you have to travel through destro and mdps tank to put your landmine on healer .
ThIs is the moment you are the most vulnerable : a tank can bump you out of your healer / tank's guard range , and of course you start losing your dodge/disrupt buff. Destro caster will see an engineer moving out of his group they ll try to get you down, so be careful at this moment (communication with your tank /healer would help a lot) then when I've debuff healers/caster I back to my group to do my magnet rotation.
For a magnet rotation I first debuff resist my targets with grenade , and then dot them with explosive grenade .
Then place lighting rod / magnet / friction burn / static discharge / blunderbuss blast .
Dont forget to use flashbang grenade on healer as soon as you can , you have to become a poison for them .
The key after a magnet is to always move around your turret to not let destro hit you on the back, makes it harder for them you'll have more survivability.

You have different reason to use a magnet :
1) Pull and pack ennemy to max aoe dmg from your group (place you magnet on a bw aoe, on a napalm or in a group of slayer !), if you have enough aoe dps in your group you better use self-destruction right after the magnet .
2)help your allies when it gets harder for them : for exemple your healers are focused / cannot retreat you'd save him with a magnet .
3) another interrupt : magnet will stop all castime really useful on healer again . Flashbang grenade then magnet would interrupt 2 time healers , plus they would stop use big heal til they back to backlines , so few second without big heals (To be perfect place a Landmine when they are back on backlines to increase theor castime)
3) to take out a group of rdps that use map to be safe. Bring them down inside melee !!!

Remember to always spam you get and summon/redeploy your turret inside the meLee to have the max AP /heal . Keep you 2 first moral if needed : M2 if you group is going wrong ,m1 if you're hard focused by ranged (or if you getting pulled/bumped out of your guard / heal range .
I probably forgot a lot of things sory

Nice summary =) I might have to make another engie just for Tinker

porkstar wrote: Nice summary =) I might have to make another engie just for Tinker

Yes so many interesting way to play engineer , so hard to find the one to play .
I am planning to test a tinker def build (full close quarter dps) , we were talking about making this build with glorian.

Been thinking of making an full team support engie (basically a farm/tinker bot) - i dont mind doing no damage. i love the full deftard engie idea.

shaggyboomboom wrote:Been thinking of making an full team support engie (basically a farm/tinker bot) - i dont mind doing no damage. i love the full deftard engie idea.

edit: something akin to this build:
full support engie

For Full deftards: Ancestral Anheritance (Armor Tactic) is imo a must.

A new T4 Engi decided today to build a SUPER-KEG-HEALER aka the Combat Medic.

Lets see how much Willpower he can stack and at what number the Keg will end.
I very doubt it is an usefull build in any competitive Enviroment.
In the Middle of a Dwarven Warband it might find some use.