[Warrior Priest] - Grace

[Tesq]

of course it does not this is not a 1vs 1, dps wp doing fine with kobs and sm, what wp loose in damage it fill the kobs with runefang, it's just not an odinary melee which mean you have to play it in a different set up. And ye spiritual channeling with a full str build doing great, lot's of burst potential couple it with a st focus of real melee btu can soak more damages and can also heals... just my feedback anyway.

[peterthepan3]

Dunno what game you're playing then tbh.

[ThePollie]

The channel does not hit that hard at all. You only ever use it to lifetap/on tanks. Wp always was beefy if specd right, but 2h offers nothing another class already does better at.

Divine Assault? It doesn't need to hit particularly hard, the lifetap is for 350%. Of the 340 or so my DA deals old, at 50% mitigation I can expect 612 health restored per swing, four times.

But there is the problem. We have nothing to contribute that someone else can't already do, and better.

Healing? Salvation and Runepriests can heal just as much, if not more, from a much safer position.
Damage? We can't even scratch a Slayer or Witch Hunter, on our better days.
Point guard? We aren't nearly durable enough to hold ground, and are easily forced off with CC.
Utility? We have a short snare that relies on Curses to function, a 4 second Silence that requires melee range, and an AoE stagger that requires Morale 3.

We can't punt targets, we can't knock them down or disarm them, we can't use Charge to rush past the line to threaten healers or mages, and we can't even do anything about being knocked down or disarmed ourselves.

of course it does not this is not a 1vs 1, dps wp doing fine with kobs and sm, what wp loose in damage it fill the kobs with runefang, it's just not an odinary melee which mean you have to play it in a different set up. And ye spiritual channeling with a full str build doing great, lot's of burst potential couple it with a st focus of real melee btu can soak more damages and can also heals... just my feedback anyway.

Name one other class whose defining feature is "it makes this other class's specific build better."

[Penril]

Name one other class whose defining feature is "it makes this other class's specific build better."

Magus.

[ThePollie]

Name one other class whose defining feature is "it makes this other class's specific build better."

Magus.

My campaign for nerfing Magus notwithstanding, I'd rather not see people hinting that Grace is viable on the basis that Sigmar's Vision makes two-handed Conquest Knights better at what they do.

[Penril]

I wont say anything about WPs (yet, i have planned a HUGE wall of text for my own thread sometime this week).

I just answered the question. Magus defining feature is basically Rift, which makes other class's AoE builds better.

[ThePollie]

I wont say anything about WPs (yet, i have planned a HUGE wall of text for my own thread sometime this week).

I just answered the question. Magus defining feature is basically Rift, which makes other class's AoE builds better.

I wouldn't call it a defining feature. It's not something just any class can replicate, but it isn't a core ability. Not every Magus is expected, 100%, to be a Rift-bot.

Just as not every Grace priest is expected, 100%, to be around solely to throw Sigmar's Vision on a knight.

[Eathisword]

But there is the problem. We have nothing to contribute that someone else can't already do, and better.

Healing? Salvation and Runepriests can heal just as much, if not more, from a much safer position.
Damage? We can't even scratch a Slayer or Witch Hunter, on our better days.
Point guard? We aren't nearly durable enough to hold ground, and are easily forced off with CC.
Utility? We have a short snare that relies on Curses to function, a 4 second Silence that requires melee range, and an AoE stagger that requires Morale 3.

We can't punt targets, we can't knock them down or disarm them, we can't use Charge to rush past the line to threaten healers or mages, and we can't even do anything about being knocked down or disarmed ourselves.

Omg, you saw the light... I tried to convinced you on those points in the early pages of this thread and you replied that we had utility and that it was not the problem...

Hence my conclusion back then, the only thing we could do better is having a HEAL DEBUFF tactic in grace mirrored to the RP, zealot or DoK one. WAAAAAGGGHHHHH We wouldn't heal better then salvation or damage more then MDPS, but we could support both group of classes well.

[Eathisword]

I've said it so many times in this thread and I'm still waiting for a decent reply to it - nobody wants a hybrid. You either compete as a strong DPS or as a strong healer, but if you try to split evenly between two things, you suddenly are no longer good enough. The only way it actually works is if you are competitive at ONE thing and have the ability to do another thing, but with the balancing factor of risk involved.

The reason you have unreliable heals is because of MAD. Get kicked out of the front line and you're forced to rely on casted heals that were deliberately gimped thanks to crappy design choices. Again, it seems people are looking at the current state of the game and trying to dictate what the class' role is based on that. If playing Grace has too many simple counters, deal with that instead of trying to create a melee DPS out of a class that isn't competently designed around that ideal.

I read what you are sating since the beginning of the thread Aza, and I don't get it. You said you don't want a Radiance spammer. You don't want a mdps in disguise. You also said melee WP was supposed to regenerate fury in melee and cast heals with that resource.

So I recorded that : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=960Ho-BdpIc

Forgo that I am salvation spec and using a 1 hander (just didn't have a good 2 hander). That is a WP regenerating fury as melee. I am salvation spec, stacking willpower, so good heals, no damage. If you resolve MAD, the way you present it, I would have done 60k damage instead of 15k, while still being the top healing class + AoE detaunt with 2 hander. IMO, that can't work... Book WP bug me, but they don'T gain their power from the books. You can heal near as much without them. I'm lost...

[ThePollie]

Omg, you saw the light... I tried to convinced you on those points in the early pages of this thread and you replied that we had utility and that it was not the problem...

First off - No.

2- We have 0 utility. AoE snares need a tactic we can't spare atm, nor in T4. Tanks do that better anyway. M3 is not good. Well, it is good, but in a tough fight you'll never get to use it cause you'll need M1 or M2 99% of the time to make your group survive (M2, focus mind... immunity to roots on a 1 min CD... ya know) We have silence, true... But RP have stagger on demand. AM have Motm. Mdps have KD. Tanks have KD. Why waste immunity on silence ? Solo it is good. It is not an incentive to get into a group... Hey boys... I has silence ! See if that works...

You stated we had no utility. That isn't true. We can silence, stagger, and snare. The problem is every other class on the front line has far better utility than we do. We heal, yes. But so does Salvation, and they don't need to be within range of the Sorcerer face-rolling 4600 damage every fifteen second.

If you resolve MAD, the way you present it, I would have done 60k damage instead of 15k, while still being the top healing class + AoE detaunt with 2 hander.

And the constant threat of being chain-CC'd and blown up at a moment's notice. People don't seem to understand the tradeoff Grace makes. You get the healing, that is core of the class. You now get the damage and a new position for certain abilities, but you also get the risk.