Return of Reckoning

When I saw that whine about disrupt I couldn't believe it

lumpi33 wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2026 10:46 pm - Recover Energy: Reworked into Cruel Reprisal; Anytime an attack you make is defended, you will automatically deal (187 + 1.0*DB) Corporeal damage to that target. Cannot occur more than once every two seconds per target.

I think this is waay too strong. Imagine vs tanks. It's gonna proc like non stop and it procs from AOE as well.

Make it on disrupt only. 5s cooldown.

The way it is it is actually better than Flashfire because after Flashfire you have to use an ability that costs AP, a 1.5 GCD and it can be defended again. The Recover Energy gonna keep proccing whatever you do without caring, adding lots of damage. They already have a pretty good proc tactic with Chilling Gusts. Imagine a group with a dok. Procs from Chilling Gusts, procs from Frozen Touch, procs from Recover Energy. All passive without having to care about.

You mean like bw extra proc on all damage also possibly grouped wirh wp? Lets try this on production before we get all exited ot might not even be room for this tactic

lumpi33 wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2026 10:46 pm - Recover Energy: Reworked into Cruel Reprisal; Anytime an attack you make is defended, you will automatically deal (187 + 1.0*DB) Corporeal damage to that target. Cannot occur more than once every two seconds per target.

I think this is waay too strong. Imagine vs tanks. It's gonna proc like non stop and it procs from AOE as well.

Make it on disrupt only. 5s cooldown.

The way it is it is actually better than Flashfire because after Flashfire you have to use an ability that costs AP, a 1.5 GCD and it can be defended again. The Recover Energy gonna keep proccing whatever you do without caring, adding lots of damage. They already have a pretty good proc tactic with Chilling Gusts. Imagine a group with a dok. Procs from Chilling Gusts, procs from Frozen Touch, procs from Recover Energy. All passive without having to care about.

It's complete meme of a tactic already and you want to nerf it to be fully useless? It's proc dmg, like any other tactic based dmg so it can't crit, nor benefit from bloodlord weapon, so no, it's not better than flashfire at all. I think you're vastly overestimating the amount of disrupt ppl actually have even now and after the renown rank changes they'll probably come down a bit if you go look at the new itemisation rules, how much deft defender costs currently and how much Dodge/Disrupt is gonna cost relative to anything else.
Also who uses chilling gusts unironically? Again if it could crit, maybe would be useful, but it can't.

After the 29th of July update on pts the ST dmg output on Engi became lower than it is on live server atm:
BIS built engi kills a training construct within 10.5- 12.5 or 12.5-13.5 seconds on live (depends on if armor piercing rounds are on or not)
On PTS it is 12.5 seconds with rounds on and 14.5-15 with rounds off

Same builds on both servers beside one ring difference (annulus or bloodlord)

The new first moral (autoloader) which allowed to do 9.5 seconds in killing the construct when the rounds was on on PTS previously is now useless - you kill construct with pretty much the same speed as without it

I would say, that it is an overall nerf on the only competitive build on engi - ST glasscannon. The rest is already bad and not required anywhere.

After the patch aoe tinkerer will be the only playable build (perhaps), though not an option for me, I think.

Don't really understand why someone kills a build which didn't affect 6v6 or higher numbers at all

Anyways, hf playing it, folks. I skip for now

Sad to see that the flood of feedback about +25 talis has been 100% ignored.

Orontes wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2026 2:04 am

lumpi33 wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2026 7:02 pm
Here my quick feedback:
- Scout SW: should be fine I think. Gotta see how they do on live.
- Skirimish SW: not fine. The AOE nerfs were really heavy. mSH feels a lot better, tankier with great tools and higher AOE damage/pressure. SW doesn't feel right. Please have another look.

Edit: forgot mSW: no more armor buff? ufff. What's the reasoning behind that? The mSH has now actually more than 100% armor bonus with the tactic and the base buff when there are no armor talis.

Why do you think Scout SW should be fine? Under the new model Acid Arrow would need to be shot first (1.5 seconds) before Fester to get any benefit of Corp. reduction, and Fester is a 9 second wait for a payoff. Fester has also had the mobility removed. What leads you to the should be fine idea?

The Skirmish and Assault changes are simply a disaster. It really feels like active hostility toward the class.

It's not that big of a difference for Acid Arrow and Fester. Fester is 3s on live, 2s with tactic. On PTS it is 1s cast without tactic. So when you use Acid Arrow followed by Fester they hit pretty quickly after another. Scouts still need two tactics to make it work though.
Flame Arrow is now base line and got moved to Scout, plus it has 100ft range. So for Scouts you can use it now and it gains power from points in Scout. It is pretty weak though. However, you have now 3 dots to stack on the target before burst. Broadhead, Shadow Sting and Flame Arrow.
I guess the rotation is something like that: stack the 3 dots, then Acid, then Vengeance, then Fester, then Rapid fire, Glass Arrow, Fell the Weak, maybe throw in an Eye Shot in between or a Take Down for kd. Something like that to get the full 10x stacks for Fester 2nd proc. btw: Rapid fire can now remove one absorb.

Oh btw: Broadhead and Shadow Sting have only 72ft range in Scout stance. That is awful for Scout snipers.

I wouldn't say it is "bad" but also not kind of "good". With Vengeance you can get 1000dps or 7k ish burst on the training dummy. Without Vengeance is more like 900dps and 6k ish. Kinda meh. Will it be "fine"? Maybe, maybe not. I think overall it is a nerf for Scouts. The fester burst got nerfed and you are still very dependent on the Vengeance buff to do meaningful damage. Destros with their non stop crying in the region chat have won again and another Order class has it's biting power been nerfed. To be honest. They tend to overnerf Order classes. Skirmish SWs got mega wrecked. aSWs gonna die in seconds with the removed armor buff and Scouts SWs are kind of only mediocre.

So now it looks like engi single target has basically been nerfed in this patch with 5% less damage and reduced flare dmg

I would honestly rather you just kept the cooldowns on signal flare and stopped nerfing them

Keula wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2026 5:06 am

lumpi33 wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2026 10:46 pm - Recover Energy: Reworked into Cruel Reprisal; Anytime an attack you make is defended, you will automatically deal (187 + 1.0*DB) Corporeal damage to that target. Cannot occur more than once every two seconds per target.

I think this is waay too strong. Imagine vs tanks. It's gonna proc like non stop and it procs from AOE as well.

Make it on disrupt only. 5s cooldown.

The way it is it is actually better than Flashfire because after Flashfire you have to use an ability that costs AP, a 1.5 GCD and it can be defended again. The Recover Energy gonna keep proccing whatever you do without caring, adding lots of damage. They already have a pretty good proc tactic with Chilling Gusts. Imagine a group with a dok. Procs from Chilling Gusts, procs from Frozen Touch, procs from Recover Energy. All passive without having to care about.

It's complete meme of a tactic already and you want to nerf it to be fully useless? It's proc dmg, like any other tactic based dmg so it can't crit, nor benefit from bloodlord weapon, so no, it's not better than flashfire at all. I think you're vastly overestimating the amount of disrupt ppl actually have even now and after the renown rank changes they'll probably come down a bit if you go look at the new itemisation rules, how much deft defender costs currently and how much Dodge/Disrupt is gonna cost relative to anything else.
Also who uses chilling gusts unironically? Again if it could crit, maybe would be useful, but it can't.

It's not a meme of a tactic. You underestimate how many disrupts BWs/Sorcs are facing. It's gonna proc all the time.

To me the new Cruel Reprisal tactic of Sorcs vs the new Burning Focus tactic of the BW speaks volumes.
-> CR is like a passive Flashfire without the need of having to do anything, with only 2s internal cooldown, for single target damage and AOE damage. It's gonna proc a ton. This is a great tactic.
-> BF on the other hand is like the worst tactic ever created. It up to ONE proc in a time window of 10s and you have a chance to get the same damage back. How awful is that?

To me these two tactics speaks volumes. It's not only these two tactics, I have tested pretty much all changes on the PTS on both sides and my conclusion can be put into one sentence: "Order nerfed, Destro buffed". I'm trying to be objective and not biased but seriously, what is going on? In all honesty: Order gonna have a really rough time after the patch. I'm gonna avoid Order and play Destro. I'm tired of what is going on with the patches since a few years and the increasing uphill battle Order has to fight. Sure, you can still get kills and win fights but the odds are more and more against you. When a Destro group or warband shows up that knows how to play they gonna stomp them into the ground like no tomorrow. That's my honest opinion.

Kyouaku wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2026 10:19 pm

Zumos wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2026 5:27 pm Stuff

Can you walk back the sac stab nerfs?

It is in no way OP for organized play like was claimed. On average it does around 1500 with a glass cannon WE, and a BiS WE with 40% crit chance has just a 16% chance of getting a double crit where you see numbers around 3k, and that chance is lowered a lot if someone runs anti crit, which is common...

Solo WE is too much, but DPS WE needs help not nerfs compared to WH. Sac stab is horrible compared to burn away lies for organized play, it does low damage for a snare and the convenience of not needing a class to armor debuff for it... Burn away lies does around 4k tooltip, while sac stab is around 1.1k... at str cap.

If you guys are insistent on the changes, can you atleast make the DPS sov give +2 skill-points to path of suffering now, because getting that skill will be not be worth 13 mastery points...

BaL is a damage over time that can be cleansed and can be countered easier, than SS. Sac Stab is instant damage, if you pair it with witchbrew the 3s burst is insane and its all instant damage and very easy to setup. Not comparable to BaL, the ar. pen on SS stacks with your ar. pen from gear and WS, 4 bloodlusts SS is still 100% armor pen. The SS damage hasn't changed much if you test it on PTS, still big crits, still big damage, i was able to crank 8k in 3s on construct without any minmaxing or doing 20 attemtps to roll lucky crits.
p.s.if you go +2 build with both wb and ss , even without crits it slaps hard and will force people to use big CDs to recover from it

Ramzel wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2026 10:15 am

Kyouaku wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2026 10:19 pm

Zumos wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2026 5:27 pm Stuff

Can you walk back the sac stab nerfs?

It is in no way OP for organized play like was claimed. On average it does around 1500 with a glass cannon WE, and a BiS WE with 40% crit chance has just a 16% chance of getting a double crit where you see numbers around 3k, and that chance is lowered a lot if someone runs anti crit, which is common...

Solo WE is too much, but DPS WE needs help not nerfs compared to WH. Sac stab is horrible compared to burn away lies for organized play, it does low damage for a snare and the convenience of not needing a class to armor debuff for it... Burn away lies does around 4k tooltip, while sac stab is around 1.1k... at str cap.

If you guys are insistent on the changes, can you atleast make the DPS sov give +2 skill-points to path of suffering now, because getting that skill will be not be worth 13 mastery points...

BaL is a damage over time that can be cleansed and can be countered easier, than SS. Sac Stab is instant damage, if you pair it with witchbrew the 3s burst is insane and its all instant damage and very easy to setup. Not comparable to BaL, the ar. pen on SS stacks with your ar. pen from gear and WS, 4 bloodlusts SS is still 100% armor pen. The SS damage hasn't changed much if you test it on PTS, still big crits, still big damage, i was able to crank 8k in 3s on construct without any minmaxing or doing 20 attemtps to roll lucky crits.
p.s.if you go +2 build with both wb and ss , even without crits it slaps hard and will force people to use big CDs to recover from it

If you need to take that much time to setup your burst you'll probably loose vrs a good team. And that burst isnt that big, sac stab often does bad damage, especially to anti crit specing players, which is common

So you are talking about building 5 frenzies, witchbrew, and then building 4 frenzies then sac stabbing? Thats a crazy amount of time investment(Or the use of a 1 min CD) to try for 1 kill. WE's do waayyy less damage then a WH using burn away lies on an armor debuff target without the crazy setup that takes...1k~ tooltip vrs 4k, yeah it can be cleansed, but thats very rare and can also be countered played with just other stuff on them so they probs wont get it most of the time.

Sac stab should be getting a buff if anything, nerfing it's utility, arm pen and dmage is just so unjustified. As I posted in the other thread with logs from pvp vrs high level players, the damage on it is only great 16%~ of the time(2x chance of crit with a base 40%, though that 16% chance plumets agaisnt people who build anti crit, which is a lot of people, which is why the average sac stab numbers are so low), to remove it's utility and lower its damage anymore is insane. Most of the time its nice because it's a snare that is a slight DPS boost, it's already so mild

Sac stab was also not stacking with the armor pen on the class when I tested it, did it for you?