[Warrior Priest] - Grace

[BrosephStylin]

I've always viewed the WP as a tanky support healer, can survive on the frontlines due to self healing and modest damage. In essence I like to view the Grace WP as a paladin. And the detaunt is alright but really I've not noticed any difference in WP performance, you die just as easily as always. Why don't you first decide decisively what the class spec SHOULD be, a hybrid, a paladin, a DPS, a healer. And then split it down the middle between 1v1 abilities and group abilities. Group abilities being heal abilities which provide bonuses to the WP and the group whilst having his 1v1 abilities do spirit or strength damage whilst also healing him, but lower the damage.

So your entire argument about Grace needing DPS is because they haven't much to contribute during defense on keep sieges when the gate is still up?

TBH that's the same with every melee class, they cannot really do anything in defense except when the door collapses or during keep lord defense.

Exactly, but in this case, the 2h wp DOESN'T EVEN DO the needed dps that it fills the position of.

[Scottx125]

I should clarify my own viewpoint here. I don't care that Grace WP as I view it won't be viable in zerg PvP. Other specs have that issue as well. My main concern is for the usefulness of the spec in smaller scale engagements.

I remember on live WP could melee 1v1 any other melee class due to their ability to outlast them, not out-damage them. Then again you want a WP to not just be a self focused heal machine, it has to be useful to the team, so it needs to have effective heals through melee damage, and needs to hit hard enough reliably to heal for enough, and survive long enough to be of any use.

[BrosephStylin]

I should clarify my own viewpoint here. I don't care that Grace WP as I view it won't be viable in zerg PvP. Other specs have that issue as well. My main concern is for the usefulness of the spec in smaller scale engagements.

Why would you limit yourself like that? Smaller scale engagements are becoming increasingly rare much faster than you think. The server is getting full more and more often, with more and more zergs showing their faces. The game, if you let it, will become as it was in live, a full zerg v zerg rvr mmo. Grace WP must be able to compete or else it will fall off like it did in live, with it only being an sc spec, which is honestly boring as ****.

Edit: And that very mindset of an ENTIRE SPEC being "not viable" is ridiculous. It's what the live devs did to half the specs and that was due to them not caring enough. Every spec must be viable in some way, or else it is just an inferior spec.

[ThePollie]

Edit: And that very mindset of an ENTIRE SPEC being "not viable" is ridiculous. It's what the live devs did to half the specs and that was due to them not caring enough. Every spec must be viable in some way, or else it is just an inferior spec.

1) Just used Live as an example for an argument.
2) Go play Wrath for a day.

[BrosephStylin]

Edit: And that very mindset of an ENTIRE SPEC being "not viable" is ridiculous. It's what the live devs did to half the specs and that was due to them not caring enough. Every spec must be viable in some way, or else it is just an inferior spec.

1) Just used Live as an example for an argument.
2) Go play Wrath for a day.

The devs have already stated they don't want to copy the mistakes they did in live, and ignoring the viability of a spec for rvr is exactly that. And are you saying Wrath is bad? Because I've seen wrath WPs much better than I top damage charts.

[ThePollie]

top damage charts.

Because nothing speaks to the viability of a class like its ability to pad damage.

[Scrilian]

Grace WP must be able to compete in a a full zerg v zerg rvr

No need for it tbh. You have Salvation for it, Grace should stay in the niche of small to medium sized conflict.
Just like every other class in the game having the Zerg build in one tree, the Scenario build in the other and Solo/Utility in third.

[peterthepan3]

I should clarify my own viewpoint here. I don't care that Grace WP as I view it won't be viable in zerg PvP. Other specs have that issue as well. My main concern is for the usefulness of the spec in smaller scale engagements.

Why would you limit yourself like that? Smaller scale engagements are becoming increasingly rare much faster than you think. The server is getting full more and more often, with more and more zergs showing their faces. The game, if you let it, will become as it was in live, a full zerg v zerg rvr mmo. Grace WP must be able to compete or else it will fall off like it did in live, with it only being an sc spec, which is honestly boring as ****.

Edit: And that very mindset of an ENTIRE SPEC being "not viable" is ridiculous. It's what the live devs did to half the specs and that was due to them not caring enough. Every spec must be viable in some way, or else it is just an inferior spec.

It's not limiting; it's being realistic. Half the classes in the game fall short in large RvR engagements: infact I'd wager to say that only about 8 classes are -really- needed in large-scale RvR).
Grace WP - like White Lions, Witch Hunters, and Single-target Slayers (do they exist?) - will pale in comparison to AOE BWs/Engis/Slayers in large-scale rvr. That's just the nature of zerg vs zerg.
Warrior Priest can already compete in RVR by being a healbot. If you want to do zergs as a WP, that's the spec to be.

Scenario/6man/roaming spec - that is what grace/wrath should be attuned for. It's not a ridiculous mindset when it is very much the truth: have a look, play all the classes, and tell me which ones are viable in large-scale RvR.

Broseph: if you equate topping damage in a scenario to being a viable class, then this argument is already lost.

[Azarael]

The sad thing is that you can't simply mess around with all the fundamentals of the game and expect the core design to be able to hold.

Allowing both minmaxing to extremes and engagements of highly variable playercount means that choices will have to be made about where some specs will perform best.

[BrosephStylin]

Grace WP must be able to compete in a a full zerg v zerg rvr

No need for it tbh. You have Salvation for it, Grace should stay in the niche of small to medium sized conflict.
Just like every other class in the game having the Zerg build in one tree, the Scenario build in the other and Solo/Utility in third.

Pure damage classes have that setup, but tanks and healers do not. Their specializations are completely different playstyles from eachother, with each one having completely different applications, both in orvr AND scenarios. Grace WP should fill this requirement.