Return of Reckoning

The drawback of leading shots is you have to run a sw in your group :^)

I think this is definitely a case where it shouldn't be judged till level 40 environment allowing us to see how sw performs endgame in the rr80 max enviroment, and if running a leading shots sw will even be meta... because from my expierence on live it wasn't.

Now that Chosen has Tzeentch's Amplification, going 2H is not as dangerous. Also, going 2H does not mean "loldps". You can stack armor/toughness/wounds/parry/disrupt, have 300 str and hit like a wet noodle and it wont matter because CS applies when you CRIT. So you only need Oppressive Blows and crit on Renown Abilities. Initiative debuffs help too.

You won't chase a rdps thinking "i need to crit him". You will just challenge him (possibly together with other rdps) and use Rending Blade on the enemy melee train.

but then you dont get destined for victory

Coryphaus wrote:but then you dont get destined for victory

We dont have DfV anyway (not until level 39). You can still go CS and DfV though (just won't crit as often due to no OB) and AoE apply with Blast Wave. Not as effective as 2H + rending blade but hey, you have DfV.

Whilst Crippling Strikes does impair dmg - the chosen needs to land a crit to do so and without a spammable AoE and (realistically the +crit that requires a 2H) it is very situational as to how effective it can be (or not)

Septic blade is a big damage nerf and single target

Encouraged Aim cant be defended, no cooldown, cant be cleansed, affects everyone in his aura range

Dirty tricks requires 1 block and buffs the team, is on no recast cooldown and buffs +10% crit (melee/magic/ballistic and heal)

Leading Shots requires 1 crit, is on no recast cooldown and buffs +15% to crit for group (melee/magic/ballistic and heal)

So the counter proposed is that two melee classes (one in a sub optimal spec) need to chase, engage (and crit in the Chosens case) to counter these Order abilities?

And the fact that on one realm the healers and mdps in group do not need to take crit tactics because but can instead pick other tactics because they are working off a base up to +35% more than the other side seems balanced to you?

Xaun wrote:Whilst Crippling Strikes does impair dmg - the chosen needs to land a crit to do so and without a spammable AoE and (realistically the +crit that requires a 2H) it is very situational as to how effective it can be (or not)

Septic blade is a big damage nerf and single target

Encouraged Aim cant be defended, no cooldown, cant be cleansed, affects everyone in his aura range

Dirty tricks requires 1 block and buffs the team, is on no recast cooldown and buffs +10% crit (melee/magic/ballistic and heal)

Leading Shots requires 1 crit, is on no recast cooldown and buffs +15% to crit for group (melee/magic/ballistic and heal)

So the counter proposed is that two melee classes (one in a sub optimal spec) need to chase, engage (and crit in the Chosens case) to counter these Order abilities?

And the fact that on one realm the healers and mdps in group do not need to take crit tactics because but can instead pick other tactics because they are working off a base up to +35% more than the other side seems balanced to you?

Yes

because

gobbos

Bretin wrote:http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=cho ... ;;;0:0:0:0:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=we; ... ;;;0:0:0:0:

-sure a 25% chance on a single target WE that need to debuff every member of a bomb wb
-sure chosen need to stack crit (how exatly spending 45 renow points? us 2h tactic??) + use a slot and also apply it to all ppl in the enemy wb to make it matter/counter yourr tactics which it also don't stack with challenge while order tactis stack with each others + loose the chance to block or use Destinated to victory.


--> while all your PASSIVE tactics are 100% time in function and you just need to push for win a wb vs wb fight?

Xaun wrote:
And the fact that on one realm the healers and mdps in group do not need to take crit tactics because but can instead pick other tactics because they are working off a base up to +35% more than the other side seems balanced to you?

35% crit is srsly op, when you will get rekt by the first decent destru meele train.

Penril wrote:I like crippling strikes (even though some people in this forum hate it because it "doesnt stack with Challenge so it is a terrible tactic".)

i'm also one of those who think CS is a tactic for bad-mediocre tanks simply to cover their inability of using Challenge properly. You were asking for counterplays, that's why i named it.

Penril wrote:does it stack with Crush the Weak?

yes it should

Penril wrote:I know that Destro has some tools to debuff enemies chance to crit but they are all ST while a KotBS can just stand there AFK and have an effective 20% buff for his group

you forgot about destru being able to kill ANY target through guard, thanks to their availability to wounds debuffs. TB and a well timed moral dump with either Sever Nerve or M2 should always result in a dead target. Septic Blade is also 2.5 times higher than DT, so it covers both EA and DT + additional 5% general crit (including all types magic, heal, melee). You can spam it by tab targeting or keep it up on every DPS which you think is a PITA for your group - i don't say that this is the g2g for a WE, just general possibilities -.

in a later stage of the game you will also have a (almost) permanent chosen and blorc m4.

Coryphaus wrote:secondly, do WE's even want to go up suffering?

yes, but if they want to spec SB is a different story (i don't use it on my WE).

Coryphaus wrote:means you cant do the OP double mara

double marauder isn't op right now. imho WE+Mrd ist the BiS destru setup atm, when it comes to a melee train. followed by choppa + marauder.

Xaun wrote:Whilst Crippling Strikes does impair dmg - the chosen needs to land a crit to do so and without a spammable AoE and (realistically the +crit that requires a 2H) it is very situational as to how effective it can be (or not)

If you're not able to keep CS up all the time, you do as much wrong as you did when you were putting Touch of Rot on my AM in a 1vs1 situation . No hate mate, just a l2p issue but i know Marauder is also a balanced class and stuff... quality comments.

Xaun wrote:Septic blade is a big damage nerf and single target

regarding ST = read above
big dmg nerf = if losing brute force is a BIG damage nerf for you idk what to say. all the necessary procs of a WE such as WB or Kisses don't even scale with strength so it's roughly a 5% overall dmg loss for a effective -25% crit debuff.

Xaun wrote:Leading Shots requires 1 crit, is on no recast cooldown and buffs +15% to crit for group (melee/magic/ballistic and heal)

by your logic earlier when talking about CS, it's very situational as to how effective it can be (or not).

Tesq wrote:sure a 25% single target WE need to debuff every member of a bomb wb

finally the last forum god appeared: not every member in a bomb group bombs, think about it.

Tesq wrote:while all your PASSIVE tactics are 100% time in function and you just need to push for win a wb vs wb fight?

"all" includes the tactic LS which is a part of the discussion and which works like CS m8, RNG! so your point is BS - get gud.

Bretin wrote:

Penril wrote:does it stack with Crush the Weak?

yes it should

This is all i wanted to know. At 100 hatred, WE + BG can debuff an enemy's chance to crit by 45%. Put it on a enemy BW and laugh at him.

Will test it tonight and let you guys know if it stacks or not.

Now that Tesq showed up in this thread, my job is done. /bb