Return of Reckoning

I think punishing a realm for letting the enemy take their keep in any fashion would be a terrible idea. The problem, as the OP has noted, is partly that people go over to the stronger side. If the realm losing keeps would be punished, people would be more likely to switch realms rather than less. Or just quit and do something else. Don't forget, we're not bound to a single realm's single zone in a single tier. Or even the game, for that matter. People wouldn't go defend a keep because the game tries to force them into it. They'll just quit, one way or another.

bwdaWAR wrote:I think punishing a realm for letting the enemy take their keep in any fashion would be a terrible idea. The problem, as the OP has noted, is partly that people go over to the stronger side. If the realm losing keeps would be punished, people would be more likely to switch realms rather than less. Or just quit and do something else. Don't forget, we're not bound to a single realm's single zone in a single tier. Or even the game, for that matter. People wouldn't go defend a keep because the game tries to force them into it. They'll just quit, one way or another.

I agree. If I kept getting punished for an issue that is out of my control (such as population) I would just go to the side that isn't being punished in order to play.

Okay do we have any other suggestions or ideas about this issue?

I will let this thread stir for a moment to hear some more ideas and then I will be posting another thread on this section of the forums proposing our changes. The ones with the most support seem to be:

Pulsing defensive ticks when defending a keep (I assume of renown, exp, and influence and how many people have to be defending to get the rewards?).
Medallion rewards for a successful keep defense (No specified number determined. I think 2 per successful defense would be ideal).

If there are any more thoughts about the matter lets discuss them now. Obviously the next thread about the matter will interrogate further the proposed ideas.

There are kill quests for keeps and BOs, those could be used for this purpose. If they work, of course.

Live events to drag more people into the lakes, hence creating a bit more action.

bwdaWAR wrote:There are kill quests for keeps and BOs, those could be used for this purpose. If they work, of course.

That is a great idea. However, I think there is some sort of issue with how the kill quests work in the keeps for defenses as the kill counters continue outside of defending the keep. Perhaps if there is a way to fix that and make the kill counter reward medallions that would work? I will propose that under that system unless you intended it to be interpreted differently.

Halhammer wrote:Live events to drag more people into the lakes, hence creating a bit more action.

Another excellent idea. I will put that in there as well. Do you have an proposed ideas for live events either of your own or from previously used events from live WAR?

Punishing the losing realm will only increase the amount of crossrealming that we already have.

However, in my opinion, there should not be a "consolation tick" for losing a zone.

My thoughts, in no particular order:

1. Keep takes must give a minimum of one medallion, scaling with the scaling XP/RP reward for how heavily defended the keep was.
- How many empty keeps will someone need to take to get a single piece of gear? Many.

2. Keep defence ticks of RP/XP/INF (but NOT medallions) should happen intermittently like on Live. This value would be a flat value, that does not scale depending on how many people are present. Instead, the longer the siege, the more intermittent ticks received. As mentioned, no medallions for these ticks, due to the fact the defenders should be obtaining medallions through kills during a prolonged siege.
- Incentivise people to defend keeps.

3. Keep defence ticks must give a minimum of one medallion, in addition to a scaling XP/RP reward for how heavily attacked the keep was. Medallion reward will scale, however all rewards will be on a proportional basis to how large the "capture" tick would be, due to the intermittent defence ticks. A defence tick will never be as large as a "capture" tick would have been for that particular siege.
- Incentivise people to defend keeps.

4. Greatly reduce or remove Medallion drops in Scenarios.
- Incentivise people to RVR
- Scenarios are currently the best way to obtain medallions, due to the sheer number of kills and also with the new kill quests.
- In b4 Mordread saying it is "wrong" to force people to play a certain way to get gear. Why do I HAVE to RVR to get my Influence gear? Surely, I should get INF in Scenarios?

5. Working postern doors
- Yes, I realise this is probably close to #1 on the devs to-do-list, but currently MDPS have zero role to play at a keep siege. There is still two keeps in Tier 2 without working posterns (Spite's Reach, Dok Karaz).

Attacking a keep takes much more effort and organisation than defending and defenders get much more rr/influence than attackers in any case. Unlike attackers, who get almost nothing if they fail. That's why I think that rewarding attackers more than defenders is the right way.

Abolition wrote:Punishing the losing realm will only increase the amount of crossrealming that we already have.

However, in my opinion, there should not be a "consolation tick" for losing a zone.

My thoughts, in no particular order:

1. Keep takes must give a minimum of one medallion, scaling with the scaling XP/RP reward for how heavily defended the keep was.
- How many empty keeps will someone need to take to get a single piece of gear? Many.

2. Keep defence ticks of RP/XP/INF (but NOT medallions) should happen intermittently like on Live. This value would be a flat value, that does not scale depending on how many people are present. Instead, the longer the siege, the more intermittent ticks received. As mentioned, no medallions for these ticks, due to the fact the defenders should be obtaining medallions through kills during a prolonged siege.
- Incentivise people to defend keeps.

3. Keep defence ticks must give a minimum of one medallion, in addition to a scaling XP/RP reward for how heavily attacked the keep was. Medallion reward will scale, however all rewards will be on a proportional basis to how large the "capture" tick would be, due to the intermittent defence ticks. A defence tick will never be as large as a "capture" tick would have been for that particular siege.
- Incentivise people to defend keeps.

4. Greatly reduce or remove Medallion drops in Scenarios.
- Incentivise people to RVR
- Scenarios are currently the best way to obtain medallions, due to the sheer number of kills and also with the new kill quests.
- In b4 Mordread saying it is "wrong" to force people to play a certain way to get gear. Why do I HAVE to RVR to get my Influence gear? Surely, I should get INF in Scenarios?

5. Working postern doors
- Yes, I realise this is probably close to #1 on the devs to-do-list, but currently MDPS have zero role to play at a keep siege. There is still two keeps in Tier 2 without working posterns (Spite's Reach, Dok Karaz).

Great additions Abo. I will work them into the draft I am working on now.

Yes working postern doors needs to happen sooner rather than later. I assume though that the reason they do not is not just because the devs don't want to introduce them but instead because of issues they have had trying to introduce them.

I agree reducing medallion drops is a great idea but I feel like that is a battle to be waged on another topic, perhaps its own.

I agree defense ticks should never yield as much as a keep capture. I think either you had not read the part regarding medallion rewards or I, or others did not explain it properly. The medallion rewards would not be pulsing with the other rewards instead the medallions would come either, as u stated, at the end of the defense tick or as someone else had proposed as a moderate reward from the keep defense kill quest. Obviously the quests would have to work properly to have that introduced though and the reward would have to be moderate, 1 MAYBE 2, but no higher, in my opinion.

as for your first statement. I agree entirely.

If I misinterpreted anything that you said in my responses please let me know. I will be adding these suggestions like I said to the next thread I will open regarding the matter. That is unless someone can rationally and logically explain why your proposals are bad ideas.

Nishka wrote:Attacking a keep takes much more effort and organisation than defending and defenders get much more rr/influence than attackers in any case. Unlike attackers, who get almost nothing if they fail. That's why I think that rewarding attackers more than defenders is the right way.

Agreed. I don't think anyone here wants to see defense become the best way to earn rewards. However, there does need to be an incentive to defend which right now there is none. There is however not to defend as a failed defense means more medallions for your enemy and a winning defense yields none.