Return of Reckoning

chozen wrote:SW's are one of the most OP classes in this current build of the game. It's the only class that can kill a player with one hit.

@renork, the QQs over the Squigg herder Will fade away once t3 kicks in and when we get to t4 people will be QQing that the class is broken

I have not laughed that hard in a while, you Sir seriously made my day.

Nishka wrote:

chozen wrote: It's the only class that can kill a player with one hit.

What about Engi snipe+2nd morale?

havent seen 1 shot snipe ever tbh. even snipe, UF, HS isnt 1 shot kill. Usually u have to snipe, UF,GB,HS and hope enemy healer wont react fast (and as long it doesnt ignore armor / festerbomb does bypass) u can kill only sorc, we, dps shamies and willpower healers.

Ok. SH vs SW discussion is swarmed with trolling so lets back to facts.

What makes SW good?

Ranged snare
Ranged knockdown
Ranged silence
Ranged armor debuff
Melee knockdown(3seconds specable in melee tree)
AOE snare + self punt
Ranged heal debuff(specable,81ft with tactic)
Fernsterring arrow(specable with bypas rezistence tactic)
Melee Disarm
Melee interupt
Self buff +25%dmg for 10s(30s CD)
+50% critical chance for 6s(30s CD) +1,5s build times on skills(useful on rapid fire or dotted target)

Tactics:
+15% crit chance for group for 10s when crit with ranged attack
+20% crit chance for 5 second (self) when landing critical hit +10% chance to get crit
Bypass armor for brutal assault for melee spec(sklil with 5s CD)

Morale:
Self cleans M1
AOE stagger for 6s and 1200dmg M3

What makes SH good:
Ranged snare
Ranged armor debuff
Ranged silence
Ranged initiate debuff
Ranged AOE cooldown increaser(specable 100ft ranged 20s CD)
Ranged heal debuff(specable up to 81ft with tactic)
Melee disarm
Melee knockdown(only 2 seconds)
Melee AOE knockback(must be in Squig armor)
30% speed for 10s(specable self buff with 45s CD)

Tactics:
when hit 25% to increase speed for 30% for 5 seconds
when hit 25% chance to detaunt target (-25% dmg) for 5 second
when hit 25% chance that 50% dmg recieved goes to squig insted( specable, can be life saver some times)
+25% dmg without summoned squig

Morale:
-50% AP cost for party M1(outshined by knockback morale. I cant remember if I used it on live)
60% AOE snare with 900dmg over 9s 100feet M2(well not having +100% dmg one means no big burst)
triple dmg for Squig while increaseing size of it for 15s(so funny morale) M3

And pets(still bugy, but effective in 1v1 or small scale) In larger fights without speced bad gas is better option to A) dismiss pet and use 25% dmg tactic B) have pet on passive mode)

As You can see whle SW is more offensive fighter with + crit chance support for party, SH is more defensive oriented with reducing dmg tactics and increasing speed + specable AOE cooldown increaser.
SW has defenitely supperior melee spec with melee stance, while still can use some of his ranged attacks, while SH melee spec is significaly less effective and cannot use any ranged skills.

In terms of DMG outpoot and group usefullness SW has defenitelly better, in terms of survivability and possible AOE cooldown debuff(if speced), SH is better.

Now the general conclusion.
While SH looks like funny goblin with funny pets and wolf mount, SW looks just.... Elfish.... with anoying movement and boring horse.
Now pick what You want.

Vdova wrote:Now pick what You want.

Is there even a choice?

no one ever really goes up bad gas

melee is never where sh wants to be

going bad gas on Sh is like going chop fasta on choppa

Nishka wrote:

Vdova wrote:Now pick what You want.

Is there even a choice?

gobbo /special is better than some elf chick. and she isnt even wearing bikini... pfff

Nishka wrote:

Vdova wrote:Now pick what You want.

Is there even a choice?

Thats hot. Respect!

Vdova wrote:

Spoiler:

Ok. SH vs SW discussion is swarmed with trolling so lets back to facts.

What makes SW good?

Ranged snare
Ranged knockdown
Ranged silence
Ranged armor debuff
Melee knockdown(3seconds specable in melee tree)
AOE snare + self punt
Ranged heal debuff(specable,81ft with tactic)
Fernsterring arrow(specable with bypas rezistence tactic)
Melee Disarm
Melee interupt
Self buff +25%dmg for 10s(30s CD)
+50% critical chance for 6s(30s CD) +1,5s build times on skills(useful on rapid fire or dotted target)

Tactics:
+15% crit chance for group for 10s when crit with ranged attack
+20% crit chance for 5 second (self) when landing critical hit +10% chance to get crit
Bypass armor for brutal assault for melee spec(sklil with 5s CD)

Morale:
Self cleans M1
AOE stagger for 6s and 1200dmg M3

What makes SH good:
Ranged snare
Ranged armor debuff
Ranged silence
Ranged initiate debuff
Ranged AOE cooldown increaser(specable 100ft ranged 20s CD)
Ranged heal debuff(specable up to 81ft with tactic)
Melee disarm
Melee knockdown(only 2 seconds)
Melee AOE knockback(must be in Squig armor)
30% speed for 10s(specable self buff with 45s CD)

Tactics:
when hit 25% to increase speed for 30% for 5 seconds
when hit 25% chance to detaunt target (-25% dmg) for 5 second
when hit 25% chance that 50% dmg recieved goes to squig insted( specable, can be life saver some times)
+25% dmg without summoned squig

Morale:
-50% AP cost for party M1(outshined by knockback morale. I cant remember if I used it on live)
60% AOE snare with 900dmg over 9s 100feet M2(well not having +100% dmg one means no big burst)
triple dmg for Squig while increaseing size of it for 15s(so funny morale) M3

And pets(still bugy, but effective in 1v1 or small scale) In larger fights without speced bad gas is better option to A) dismiss pet and use 25% dmg tactic B) have pet on passive mode)

As You can see whle SW is more offensive fighter with + crit chance support for party, SH is more defensive oriented with reducing dmg tactics and increasing speed + specable AOE cooldown increaser.
SW has defenitely supperior melee spec with melee stance, while still can use some of his ranged attacks, while SH melee spec is significaly less effective and cannot use any ranged skills.

In terms of DMG outpoot and group usefullness SW has defenitelly better, in terms of survivability and possible AOE cooldown debuff(if speced), SH is better.

Now the general conclusion.
While SH looks like funny goblin with funny pets and wolf mount, SW looks just.... Elfish.... with anoying movement and boring horse.
Now pick what You want.

If I may nitpick your post a bit.

Sinister Assault (bypass armor with BA tactic) is good, but has a hard time fitting into an Assault build (Wrist Slash, No Respite, Distracting Rebounds etc. are all better choices). You also forgot Wrist Slash which is one of the best Assault (and even Skirmish, with Eye Shot that's about 10% extra crit on your target, +5% for yourself from Skirmish stance) tactics.
Distracting Rebounds is another great SW tactic, it turns your single-target detaunt into a TAoE detaunt.
The biggest benefit of Lileath's Forgiveness (self cleanse M1 as you put it) is that it both cleanses everything bad from you AND returns 250 AP, this means that using it directly after Flee! you get both a charge-like ability and a snare remover (crucial for Assault/Skirmish builds).

You forgot that SH also gets an AoE snare + self punt. The "melee disarm" (Drop That!!) for SH is not technically a melee disarm since it activates on your pet's next attack, which means that unless you're running Horned Squig (and who, outside of keep KB trolling, does?) it will work as a ranged disarm.
The biggest difference between SW and SH is that the SH can use every skill at his disposal regardless of which pet ("stance") he has out. This means that you can apply all your debuffs and use all your attacks while having double armor, or while having 5% extra crit and moving auto-attacks.
Ranged pets are also incredibly useful since they don't suffer from the path-finding issues that all melee pets have, having a pet also means that if someone detaunts you not all your damage suffers (marginally useful, but still something to consider).

Both SW and SH suffer against high armor values, but SW suffers slightly less due to Festering Arrow and WS buff from Assault Stance/Wrist Slash (I can currently get 45%+ armor penetration from WS at 26/37).
Also, the Skirmish/Quick Shootin' range increase is 50%, which should bring their attacks to 98ft(?) not 81ft. You must have confused it with Daemonic Reach/Throwing Arm which is 25%.

EDIT: Totally forgot about Lileath's Arrow/Shoot thru' Ya, they're a pillar AoE attack without a CD and with a 2s cast time. They don't turn you into a bomb machine (except maybe for a short time on retail when Expert Skirmisher halved their cast times) but are nice ways to leech some RP from the zerg, and makes you feel useful when your realm is pushing in city/keep sieges.

The Initiative debuff from Wrist Slash and Eye Shot should not stack on RoR. Highest debuff takes priority. Whoops.

Yep ,you right about that but still feels unseasy when animation -does not what you want.

And bout " Flame Arrow" thigs become complicated only for Skirmisher SW i ill explain
"Flame Arrow" - REQUIRES SCOUT STANCE - got tired of swaping from Skirmisher to Scout each 10 sec only to put AOE-DOT in mass pvp . While in same time Single-Sarget-Dot "BROADHEAD ARROW" from Skirmisher tree didnt ask ANY stance at all and can be used in Scout Stance , maybe SWs with main tree -as "SCOUTs" never feeing that problem couz FESTERING and FLAME arrows can be used always in "SCOUT" stance but for "SKIRMISHERs" its pain in @ss as hell.

what ability give u ranged knockdown ?