Return of Reckoning

krumhur wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2026 6:37 am
If you use the "X class has this skill, why can't the mirror have it too?" argument, at least you have the consider those classes similarities/differences.

DoKs don't have an undefendable, high hitting, spirit based, attack which debuffs parry + block (Divine Impact), or a parry buff (Sigmar' Vision), or the AoE damage of WPs (Guilty Soul tactic). Moreover, to get the heal debuff they have to take a tactic which does little more than provide them the debuff (the additionall damage on Sanguinary Extensions requires you to also use Drowning in Blood, thus expending a lot of resources), and the spec is already tactics cramped (Divine Fury + Murderous Intent being mandatory). Also, DoKs don't have any spammable, high damage resource consuming skill in their DPS line, while WPs' one has a paper damage on par (or higher, with 3 Guilty Soul stacks) than the DoKs finisher, which can be used only on targets below 50% hp. Finally, DoKs don't have any wounds buff (Sigmar's Grace).

When you will consider all the above, maybe you will realise the two classes are deeply different, hence why you see melee WPs so often in the lakes, even in warbands, while melee DoKs are a rare sight on destro, even more so in warbands.

The "X class has this skill, why can't the mirror have it too?" argument is kinda weak in this contest, isn't it?

Endari wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2026 7:47 am

krumhur wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2026 6:37 am
If you use the "X class has this skill, why can't the mirror have it too?" argument, at least you have the consider those classes similarities/differences.

DoKs don't have an undefendable, high hitting, spirit based, attack which debuffs parry + block (Divine Impact), or a parry buff (Sigmar' Vision), or the AoE damage of WPs (Guilty Soul tactic). Moreover, to get the heal debuff they have to take a tactic which does little more than provide them the debuff (the additionall damage on Sanguinary Extensions requires you to also use Drowning in Blood, thus expending a lot of resources), and the spec is already tactics cramped (Divine Fury + Murderous Intent being mandatory). Also, DoKs don't have any spammable, high damage resource consuming skill in their DPS line, while WPs' one has a paper damage on par (or higher, with 3 Guilty Soul stacks) than the DoKs finisher, which can be used only on targets below 50% hp. Finally, DoKs don't have any wounds buff (Sigmar's Grace).

When you will consider all the above, maybe you will realise the two classes are deeply different, hence why you see melee WPs so often in the lakes, even in warbands, while melee DoKs are a rare sight on destro, even more so in warbands.

The "X class has this skill, why can't the mirror have it too?" argument is kinda weak in this contest, isn't it?

So a 2 sec cast melee range ability means the wp should be the only mdps in the game without any form of a gap closer? Dok does have a lesser version of an aoe proc tactic in Khaine's Imbuement so use that if you want to pretend you are useful in a blob. wp is also tactic cramped whats your point? Dok has 3 snares(one ranged) and a mini charge on kill with Wracking Agony. The garbage heal debuff is a genuine problem and I still don't understand the constant nerfing of the dok's hd. Sure no parry buff on dok but consume strength buffs and debuffs strength where the wp version needs a tactic to do the same. The wounds buff is the first ability shattered in any fight. None of that makes the wp sooo much better than dok in dps that the wp should be the only mdps in the game without any form of a gap closer. Hell they added charge to we/wh and even double pounce to the we when those classes had none before. Again its not "X CLASS HAS IT I NEED IT TOO!" its the Warrior Priest 2h MDPS spec is THE ONLY MDPS in the game without ANY form of a gap closer.

Endari wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2026 9:32 pm

Morradin wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2026 11:43 am So we ignore the elephant in the room of the insane WP DPS damage tactics and the fact they are criting all the time and complain about a snare? OK .. nerf dps wp damage and you can have your snare back. 2H WP should not have both insane dmg and a snare. At least pretend to be balanced.

All of those "insane" tactics and somehow dps wp still does at best 80% of the dps of a full dps class, funny how that works.

Morradin wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2026 12:32 pm

Endari wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2026 9:32 pm

Morradin wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2026 11:43 am So we ignore the elephant in the room of the insane WP DPS damage tactics and the fact they are criting all the time and complain about a snare? OK .. nerf dps wp damage and you can have your snare back. 2H WP should not have both insane dmg and a snare. At least pretend to be balanced.

All of those "insane" tactics and somehow dps wp still does at best 80% of the dps of a full dps class, funny how that works.

psssttt ... psssttt ... come closer. I have a small secret to share ...

THE 2HWP IS NOT A DPS CLASS!!!!

2H WP like to pretend they are dps. But they are not designed to be a dps class. You want to play a pure dps class, well there are a variety of dps classes to play on order. There are three Melee dps classes and three Ranged dps classes. By all means avail yourself of one of those, or heck ... play all six.

BUT THE WARRIOR PRIEST IS A HEALER DESIGN. What helps the class to heal comes first. So no!!! Nope!!! WP does not deserve to have a closer. WP should not get a closer. UNLESS they give up dps damage.

Simple isnt it? Stop wanting all the toys in the playground to be yours.

krumhur wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2026 9:46 am
First of all, the other poster's argument was indeed "DoKs have X ability, give it to WPs too": the fact that you deny that (its not "X CLASS HAS IT I NEED IT TOO!") means that either you didn't read the post I was replying to, or that you are lacking the intellectual honesty to discuss the matter in a civil and honest way.

Second, the point of my post was not to say that WPs don't deserve or don't need a gap closer, that's something for the devs to decide and on top of that I never said that WPs shouldn't get such a skill.
You are willingly manipulating the conclusion I got to just to further prove your points, so let me clarify my conclusions: the argument "DoKs have this ability, WPs should have it too" is weak if you want to get a gap closer on the WP.

Moreover, many of the arguments you wrote in your post, the one I'm replying to right now, are either pointless or further prove my own points:
- about the mini charge DoKs get: for it to work as a gap closer you need a) to land the killing blow with Wracking Agony and 2) to have multiple enemies, otherwise you get the speed buff when your only enemy is dead, thus being pointless. Due to the first requirement, it's not even reliable in SCs. The only situation when it's useful is possibly in 1vsX fights, and even then you need to land the killing blow with Wracking Agony which is not guaranteed and, besides, the speed buff is the weakest "gap closer" you can get given that it can be nullified by staggers, stuns, slows, whatever (while pounce skills can't);
- second, the fact that, as you noticed yourself, DoKs have a str buff+debuff, while WPs don't, further confirms my argument that the two classes, in regards to the DPS melee spec, have so little in common that it's pointless to ask for one to be buffed because the other has X skill, which is indeed the kind of argument you are using (you are even comparing WPs to other melee classes now, WEs/WHs).

Finally, the fact you willingly ignored many parts of my reply, while also reading what you wanted to read (just to further prove your points), is a sign to me that you do not want to discuss the topic in a honest way. You simply want WPs to be buffed for the sake of it.

Morradin wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2026 12:32 pm
psssttt ... psssttt ... come closer. I have a small secret to share ...

THE 2HWP IS NOT A DPS CLASS!!!!

2H WP like to pretend they are dps. But they are not designed to be a dps class. You want to play a pure dps class, well there are a variety of dps classes to play on order. There are three Melee dps classes and three Ranged dps classes. By all means avail yourself of one of those, or heck ... play all six.

BUT THE WARRIOR PRIEST IS A HEALER DESIGN. What helps the class to heal comes first. So no!!! Nope!!! WP does not deserve to have a closer. WP should not get a closer. UNLESS they give up dps damage.

Simple isnt it? Stop wanting all the toys in the playground to be yours.

Cullenn wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2026 9:22 pm
Really? so based on your argument let's delete all dps healers, let's delete dps AM, shaman, zealot, RP, all of them, what do you think? you do such a drama for a small change, but its looks like you dont like dps healers, so let's delete all of them because they are not DPS.

Endari wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2026 12:35 am

Morradin wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2026 12:32 pm
psssttt ... psssttt ... come closer. I have a small secret to share ...

THE 2HWP IS NOT A DPS CLASS!!!!

2H WP like to pretend they are dps. But they are not designed to be a dps class. You want to play a pure dps class, well there are a variety of dps classes to play on order. There are three Melee dps classes and three Ranged dps classes. By all means avail yourself of one of those, or heck ... play all six.

BUT THE WARRIOR PRIEST IS A HEALER DESIGN. What helps the class to heal comes first. So no!!! Nope!!! WP does not deserve to have a closer. WP should not get a closer. UNLESS they give up dps damage.

Simple isnt it? Stop wanting all the toys in the playground to be yours.

If you don't know what your are talking about maybe stay silent, nobody would know your ignorance then.