Balance of the game

[M0rw47h]

Except hes not right.

Prove him wrong. Game facts pls, without Sailor Moon fanfics.

Already pointed out his lack of understanding of morale game on page 2.
Don't expect me to tell him exacly how to abuse things Order has, because I've no personal gain in this.

[Sever1n]

If u referring to things u compared to chosen morale tactic that allow them reach m4 really fast, your arguments are weak at best. Maybe thats why no one answered them. But if you wish, from playing healing AM:

AM really rarely use morale pump mainly because if you go EoV u have only 1 point to spare without sacrifice of good stuff and that with sov +2, on top of it EoV no longer crits so it wont spread morale pump on WB, so sligtly faster morales in party is nothing if their parties dont have same pumping ams, cos u wanna sync m2 drops. Usually spare point go into heal crit power and -ap on massheal tactic. AM have better tactic than ap pump for grp, like instares crit desperation etc.
Normally wb dont want many am is those days tnx to their extreme squishines and huge nerfs of EoV, and they usually there to act as resbots. EVEN if random wb have fullsov AM with morale pump they will reach m4 far later and only for its group, when snb chosens that usually use it 100% of times + chosens are CORE to any party tnx to fat auras.

About that BW have self morale pump and knighs have moral drain at m4 - its about speed of reaching tank m4, destro can reach fast m4 and push keep when order still be at m3 as example. If bw will reach morale fast it wont change anything, if knigth will have morale burn at m4 who cares is destro already stomp your face on m4 from chosens?

And morales question was like one tiny bit of Gunlinger post, u really claim him wrong in full becouse u think you rigth about morales? Its more anbout cc adavantage of destro, wich old news that people know about, and discussed at full. So pls continue proving him wrong, i would really want to read it. Destro usualy started "but kotbs have +15% heal aura", etc if it helps.

[M0rw47h]

If u referring to things u compared to chosen morale tactic that allow them reach m4 really fast, your arguments are weak at best. Maybe thats why no one aswered them. But if you wish, from playing healing AM:

AM really rarely use morale pump mainly because if you go EoV u have only 1 point to spare without sacrifice of good stuff and that with sov +2, on top of it EoV no longer crits so it wont spread morale pump on WB, so sligtly faster morales in party is nothing if their parties dont have same pumping ams, cos u wanna sync m2 drops. Usually spare point go into heal crit power and -ap on massheal tactic. AM have better tactic than ap pump for grp, like instares crit desperation etc.
Normally wb dont want many am is those days tnx to their extreme squishines and huge nerfs of EoV, and they usually there to act as resbots. EVEN if random wb have fullsov AM with morale pump they will reach m4 far later and only for its group, when snb chosens that usually use it 100% of times + chosens are CORE to any party tnx to fat auras.

About that BW have self morale pump and knighs have moral drain at m4 - its about speed of reaching tank m4, destro can reach fast m4 and push keep when order still be at m3 as example. If bw will reach morale fast it wont change anything, if knigth will have morale burn at m4 who cares is destro already stomp your face on m4 from chosens?

And morales question was like one tiny bit of Gunlinger post, u really claim him wrong in full becouse u think you rigth about morales? Its more anbout cc adavantage of destro, wich old news that people know about, and discussed at full. So pls continue proving him wrong, i would really want to read it. Destro usualy started "but kotbs have +15% heal aura", etc if it helps.

Imagine I've played BiS AM, RP, WP, Knight, SM and SW and couple other non-BiS toons on Order in the past both warband/alliance and smallscale

About morale pumps:
Both BO and Chosen tactics give 250 morales over 10 seconds, but they require a block/s to trigger said tactics. If you think about it, it means, they require somekind of potato spamming irrevelant fluff on them, if you could keep your rDPS friends from spamming fluff pre-push, those tactics wouldn't trigger at all . Meanwhile AM tactic can feed 200 morales/10 seconds assuming you can heal crit every 3 seconds, so sometimes it will be slower than that, but it doesn't require enemies to do stupid things and throwing single axe from time to time can keep you in combat is enough.

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You know you can combine BW self pump and AM pump to eat those yummy Destro morales with Burning Head, if Solar Flare is too slow for you? Their salty tears will be delicious.

Now let me ping-pong, since you used scenario where Destro pushes Order keep: early pushes can be easily countered with well timed oil.

I don't really get why you guys complain about Winds of Insanity and Outta My Way! as they are channels, while your most played DPS has AoE interrupt on instant cast countering both of those abilities and all other damaging channels at same time in 360 radius not in frontal cone as in case of Marauder.

The only issue balance wise could be AoE KD Marauder has CC wise, BUT Engineer already has it's substitute (same as Magus).
I know 99% Engis can pew pew from 100 ft only and using Self-Destruct aggressively in sync with Retribution and Whirling Axe is beyond their imagination, but it can be done.

[Sever1n]

And how often u use morale tactic on AM? Most of ams say - never. Hard to triger block in batle on snb? Really?

For person who have ton of bis toons underestimating any of tools in list looks weid at best. U never been pulled by gtcd into blob in veird position not able to move in colision? Never saw how often maras pull people? Never was witness of zeals and squigs punting people in corners or from keep doors? Never was slowed from trowed axe by celerity? Never was chased on borks speed buff? How you managed not experience all of that and now claim like it doesnt matter? And u act like this advantage doesnt exist? Funny.

But it not makes gunlinger wrong, it just indicates that you dont see or dont care about dif.

[M0rw47h]

And how often u use morale tactic on AM? Most of ams say - never. Hard to triger block in batle on snb? Really?

For person who have ton of bis toons underestimating any of tools in list looks weid at best. U never been pulled by gtcd into blob in veird position not able to move in colision? Never saw how often maras pull people? Never was witness of zeals and squigs punting people in corners or from keep doors? Never was slowed from trowed axe by celerity? Never was chased on borks speed buff? How you managed not experience all of that and now claim like it doesnt matter? And u act like this advantage doesnt exist? Funny.

But it not makes gunlinger wrong, it just indicates that you dont see or dont care about dif.

1. More often than instant rez...
2. Outside of funnels GtdC is annoying at best. Being pulled as tank is "nice" feature, because thats free immunity, on other toons that usualy was problem only with odd positioning. Getting sucked into Freebootaz WB on tank while running 6 man and dying usualy was acceptable price for rest of party going away.
3. Marauders pull as many people as do WLs and those people are usualy horribly positioned. I'd say TE is less annoying than Fetch.
4. Zealot standing at keep doors to punt people is last thing I'd want my healer to do. Especially when its so easily interrupted.
5. Never had issues while kiting on Order, in most cases we would sacrifice one of tanks behind. Unless overextended.
6. You got speed buff ability on your Sov. Use it.

Destro has some "advantages" over Order, but that doesn't mean Order doesn't have any advantages over Destro.

I used Moonlight argument before to illustrate how you guys only see part of picture, ignoring rest of it (bias).
Like you don't even want to see that Order has bigger d... numbers by deflaut.

[Sever1n]

Oh u illustrated enough.

[M0rw47h]

Oh u illustrated enough.

Here you got some evidence on how AM morale pump can be used with success and dominate lakes for hours

[Sever1n]

Im well aware what kind of people Sam and crew likes to dominate in those setups nowadays. Already told u what i think about it, and showing me how they pump bunch of ib into morale drop is not an evidence, we talked about speed of charging in regular 2/2/2 wich is runned 99% of time, not what can be done with morale pump in higly specific and coordinated setups. Those morale drops shenanigans can be done even on 24 wh without AM, and they have litlle in common to what was mention in reference about destro having morales faster (wich was explained to you in details). So pls focus on the matter, cos i still believe gunlinger was rigth.

On top i se ethat ere we go shammie morale pump tactic is still in place, and it far easier to trigger in normal combat. Add to that chosens damaging m4 + tactic u will have same crap u showed in video even faster.

Forgot to mention main elefant in room - mara, prob gunlinger was refering to it. He slows morale gain and optionaly have way to nonstop burn order morale. U still gonna argue about who is faster reaching morales, order or destro?

U can ask TUP to run bunch msh to be evidence what havoc can bring those immune ignoring punts.