Return of Reckoning

Each class got more powerful.

Its up to players to figure out the new changes and realize why.

nat3s wrote: Thu Jan 08, 2026 8:08 pm

ravezaar wrote: Thu Jan 08, 2026 1:17 pm I like feedback from players who never play a class

Almost as good as people who post without feedback and instead just like to throw an insult because they don't agree, but without having the guts to suggest why for fear they'll be putting themselves open to scrutiny...

I know your type!!

Iv bin giving feedback in 3 threads about this patch already, and my feedback is as I said all the time, this is bad rework for all the new changes are just overshadow by a huge nerf to our sustain in combat. we are so weak now playing the class is just doing the Faction and warband a dishonest. BUt not playing the class, not knowing what u talk about then posting about it that I guess is the way to go.

It so crazy people don't even complain that they can't kill WE or WH in 1v1 with their op classes. No they complain that WE/WH can get away from them and don't just stand there and wait to die. Sorry that our MELEE LOW ARMOR classes got escape mechanisms so we don't die to every solo IB, WL, SL, BO, Mara, Chosen... If you would have played a WE or WH in the past years you would know that the class still dies a lot. You need keybinds of every skill you have and rotate like crazy to get hits in as everything has now 30+ % parry and detaunt and healpotting are still in the game for some reason.

nat3s wrote: Thu Jan 08, 2026 8:03 pm

Sinisterror wrote: Thu Jan 08, 2026 9:08 am Welf leap should be removed,and the new aoe skill shouldnt require frenzies, it should build frenzies. And do i remember this wrong, but ranged finisher's were added in Warhammer aor? it was not RoR change if i remember correctly.

Where's the compensation for WH getting Incendiary Shot to spam ranged executions or for WHs 25% Abso/BAL crit chance if you do that?

________________
- Rite of Unmaking - New tactic at 7 pt in Path of Treachery: Sever Blessing builds another Blood Lust and deals 25% more damage if you are behind the target.
compared to WHs
- Unyielding Conviction - New tactic at 7 points in Path of Judgement: Silence The Heretic no longer requires you to be behind the target to deal damage and it builds an additional Accusation.

: Sever Blessing (WE and WH ability)
- always useable when target has a blessing (basically everyone has at least 1)
- does not apply immunity against knockdown
- with tactic it will deal 25% more dmg and build 2 points. Can be used for: off gcd - Opener 2p, knockdown 1p, Sever Blessing, full 5 point Sacriicial Stab at sec 1 of Knockdown

:Silence the Heretic (Troat Slitter on WE)
- shares immunity with knockdown
- still bugged and can not be used when target is immune from knockdown
- no dmg bonus
- no blessing removed from target

missed opportunity to give both the same good thing instead of giving on the good and one the määäh
_______________

- Sacrificial Stab - Reworked to: Damaging. bla bla dmg ignoring ALL of their armor and snaring them by 40% for 2 sec per BL point(5p-10s 40% snare)

- Blade Spin - New ability in Path of Carnage bla bla dmg Your chance to critically hit is increased by 10% against enemies below 50% health and by 20% against enemies below 25% health.!

- Shadow Leap - Reworked to: Ailment. 30 AP. 45 ft range. Instant. 30s CD. You pounce forwards towards your target, stabbing them with your daggers to deal (112 + 1.5*DB + 1.5*WDPS) damage. Your target's movement speed will be reduced by 40% for 3 seconds. Whenever you enter stealth, the cooldown of Shadow Leap is reset.

- Heart Render Toxin - Now available at level 25 and reworked to: Ailment. 35 AP. 5 ft range. Instant. 10s CD. Builds 1 Blood Lust. - You quickly strike your target with your toxic dagger for (112 + 1.5*DB + 1.5*WDPS) damage and apply an ailment to them, reducing their Wounds by 150 for 15 seconds.

tactics

- Masterful Treachery - 15% dmg buff on use of opener for 10s
combined with - Flanking means +30% dmg for 10 sec after opener from behind.

- Swift Movements - Now additionally increases your Weapon Skill and Initiative by 150 while using Feinted Positioning
(from 60s cd down to 20s with 10s uptime so 10s cooldown + 150 ini and ws self buff)

_______________
Witchhunter got tactic to make Bal and Abso 25% more likely to crit

Witch has tactic that Enevenomend Blade (spamable core ability 3 time stack 9 sec dot) will reduce targets chance to crit hit with ANY ability by 25%!!!!!!!!!!

Bal ticks slow and takes 9 seconds. Can be cleansed and still has to deal with armor.

New 30 ft dot shot is nice. Tactic to have it apply bullets looks nice, but should be part of the ability itself if you compare it
with Wraking Pains that has NO COOLDOWN, ticks for 21 sec, debuffs Toughness and Weaponskill by 150 for 21 sec when target is ailing (Targets are 100% ailing when attacked by WE or WH with opener)



To sum it up what the Patch did when looking at WE and WH exclusively, it is save to say that the WE won the big price while the WH got some leftovers
and some shiny looking stuff that kinda works.

- Both got a viable AOE build.
- WH finally got some more Spirit dmg IS(ST)/BH(AOE) But the call out to finally make both Torch Abilitys (BH/BAL) be Corp/Ele or Spirit got 50% ignored
- WH got 25% crit extended from only Abso to Abso and Bal. (paid for by tactic no longer 3 point but 11 point in skill tree. EW + Abso build KAPUTT)
- WH Vindication tactic nerfed (niche caster hunter build now to weak to wage out the downside in dmg on physical type enemy)

- Witch still has 30f initial range on OYK that she got on RoR and was never intended to have because of her wider set of self buffed movement speed boosts.
- Witch can now leap outside of stealth, and reset it's cd by insta and normal stealth (she should not even have a leap in the first place, since leap was a Unique Ability that was intended to be Order exclusive)


- WE's time to kill after patch is now so short that most classes( rr80+ bis gear) are dead 2 sec after or during knockdown
She is now a kiter killer with access to 3 40% movement speed debuffs from which 1 is also a leap that can be used 2 times instantly, in combination with
Elixir of Shadows. In exchange for such a HUGE addition they should at least up snapshots slow to 45%.

Gunlinger is right. Overall only good part of rework is aoe spec. Other changes is bad, WE now a monster, wh didnt get any of his problem fixed. Few range farts is nothing compared to what WE got.

They could hit 2.1k agonize pre patch tnx to 15+15 now its max hp shred stun agonize agonize sacrificial. Normal target usually have 8.5k hp. U go into stun with 7k Get ~ 1.5 2.1 2.1 +4k from skills if they all crited + AA. Wound cutter agonize and sacrificial basically true dmg. Perfect toxic oneshot with little counterplay window before stun. Feinted fix position problem.

Who dont know feinted allow to stab agonizes with full armor ignore into face. Tactic alow WE to do it every 10 sec now, buffing her autos and def on top. Wh can do it once per 60 sec and WH suppose to waste it on ranged slows when WE have 10sec slow, pounce slow. And where wh need to seek where to get armpen for that OP OP BAL, WE freely go into mellepower now.

Special place woundcutter that buff our beloved def WE. Wonderfull idea.

I dunno whats wrong with people calling this successful rework. From my viev its catastrophic, all feedback was ignored, and any mention of this drowns in arguments like "wh have ranged spec now" "wh have spirit dmg now" "bal 25% crit increase!!!" Etc. If people enjoying deaths in 1 stun, well this rework is successful indeed. Feels like devs was triked by some WE entusiast to fullfill his most wild pvp dreams, happy for him, but not what i was waiting so long.

And yet my WH feels stronger than my WE.

Neither of you seem to have WEs judging from your sigs, have you spent 30+ hours playing each? I have and they both have their strengths and weaknesses. I love both equally.

There is no bias that I can see. Flowing Accusations alongside Incendiary Shot is so powerful, you can spam ranged finishers and Abso will have 60%+ crit when doing that as well as 25% pen from Blessed Blade and 25% pen from Seal of Destruction, that's so powerful! BAL ticks for hit hard, not just the final tick, regen WE was nerfed as it relied on kiting with Ruthless Assault which is no longer a thing.

WL still destroys WE, but I find WH more easily deals with Mara by comparison because you can simply kite the Mara after opener. WE has a gap closer, but reaching the target isn't guaranteed + means you are going to be face tanking, no opportunity to kite with hot pot etc.

They feel different and both feel cool. The grass isn't always greener

1 thing that is true, whoever gets the opener between a WH and a WE will win. A WE can do 1.8k Agonising Wounds and 3k Sac Stabs on the WH, a WH can do 1.5k Torments, 1.2k BAL ticks and 2k final tick... They are both so bursty that the duel is won by whoever gets the opener on the other. That feels fair to me!

Unless WE is def spec. In tanky spec WE will eat WH. Who cares. There are orher archetypes in game. Ranges for ecample. Describe how to kite those WE maybe. As range u cannot be competitive against class with double stealth, pounce, all avaible cc (ok, without root for this moment), with superior mobility over rdps.
EVENTUALLY if rdps is winning WE will disengage.
There was good reasons why stealth classes on live never ever suposted to get so many cc/mobility/disengaging tools like on RoR server.

Agree with what Gunlinger said as well. I have both WE and WH 80+ . Don't get me wrong, I don't want WE to be nerfed, the pounce and SS changes are really cool.
It is however clear that very little effort was spent on WH. Basically only got +25% crit on Bal which is still mitigated by armor. And a ranged builder every 10sek which is still parried like everything else you do.
You still need to go hard into armor pen which is even harder now that SOD is only 25%.
Many here ignore the fact that WE does not need to spend a single point of anything into armor pen because they now have PA, SS and AW that totally ignore armor. Again that's great news for WE but is clearly not available on WH at all. And in an armor focused meta that is bad news for WH.
That new tactic for incendiary shot is a joke. I mean it is already a bullet shot so naturally it should proc a bullet lol. No WH will ever waste a tactic slot on that.

So my proposal is:
Make the incendiary shot (IS) tactic (Blessed ammunition) reduce IS cool down by 5sek and make it proc all bullets (all 3 effects and dmg ).

Rework exit wound to make it viable. Remove the strange debuffs that don't do much. Make EW ignore armor compete like SS on WE. Buff EW DMG so that it can also crit for 3.5k like SS.

I have both my Witch Elf is in end game gear and my Witch Hunter is in Triumphant + Vanq.
Talking only about dps spec Bal vs Sac Spec wh feels alot stronger comparing those specs.

Slowbro wrote: Sun Jan 11, 2026 3:19 pm Agree with what Gunlinger said as well. I have both WE and WH 80+ . Don't get me wrong, I don't want WE to be nerfed, the pounce and SS changes are really cool.
It is however clear that very little effort was spent on WH. Basically only got +25% crit on Bal which is still mitigated by armor. And a ranged builder every 10sek which is still parried like everything else you do.
You still need to go hard into armor pen which is even harder now that SOD is only 25%.
Many here ignore the fact that WE does not need to spend a single point of anything into armor pen because they now have PA, SS and AW that totally ignore armor. Again that's great news for WE but is clearly not available on WH at all. And in an armor focused meta that is bad news for WH.
That new tactic for incendiary shot is a joke. I mean it is already a bullet shot so naturally it should proc a bullet lol. No WH will ever waste a tactic slot on that.

So my proposal is:
Make the incendiary shot (IS) tactic (Blessed ammunition) reduce IS cool down by 5sek and make it proc all bullets (all 3 effects and dmg ).

Rework exit wound to make it viable. Remove the strange debuffs that don't do much. Make EW ignore armor compete like SS on WE. Buff EW DMG so that it can also crit for 3.5k like SS.

You mention PA, SS and AW ignoring armour... The WH equivalent to AW is Torment which ignores armour. The equivalent to PA is Repel Blasphemy which doesn't ignore armour but does give you 5s of 100% parry which can be chained with m1! Finally SS is the equivalent of BAL and whilst SS hits hard, it doesn't do as much damage as BAL.

The abilities are different, but for these 3 in particular, I think the WH variants are actually better.