Return of Reckoning

This picture shows that increasing damage, range and strikethrough on abilities isn't necessarily as bonkers as some ITT may think. I get that slayers are apples and AM's are oranges, but regardless. Rework is coming and everything is subject to change.

I'd like to present this picture of cherry picked archmages dps abilities post rework:

As you can see he got a lot of flat increases in damage, range and strikethrough by using his mechanic as intended, and some additional effects to boot. This is what I wish for slayer - a rewarding mechanic with fluent, flashy and interesting abilities. Maybe the mechanic needs to be refined a bit and the abilities can scale more exactly of that, but the numbers and abilities proposed in OP are all subject to debate. Please argue, but do not say buffs like that are impossible because it just happened last patch to another class.

I really cant say much for Dps Am/Shaman except they got unnecessary buffs with healer patch. But the whole mechanic thing, When healing with either am/Shaman i liked the old mechanic that allowed fodg to be cast while moving, same for I'l take that.

You could make great use for it in scs to quite constantly have 25% increased heal buff on most heal abilities. Also 3s Cleanse Cooldown while Tactics Greener Cleanin/Isha's Encouragement still stacked with itself like it did for 13 yrs or more when it was ninja nerfed, and Even without tactic the cleanse has 200-300 absorb on it as well, so this is huge nerf in my book, never played without the tactic but now it works against itself/erases itself...

and since you could have 2-3 on more 2-3 targets, every one of them applied while the buffed form is active, I feel like heal shammy/am took huge nerfs espesially to flow and how it feels. since fodg is quite bad now and used to be THE MUST HAVE ability for both classes in heal spec because can be moved while casting, and never healed less than 1k.

But both classes still works as healers but i just dont enjoy them nearly the same as before healer patch

Hello All,

I am afraid that this post even it is one of the most interested, will be a spit in the wind..
Even if the SLAYER has been one of the most nerfed classes for a year and a half, it remains my favorite class with which I find pleasure to play. And I continue also to play solo 30% of the time - it's hard most of the time, but that's my drug maybe...

I will not enter deeply in the debate of Tier level ranking for the Slayers.
Yes, in a small scale (premade SC) - on the paper Slayer AoE duo with BW > White Lion duo with BW...

but guys, just think about somes things : Skill of the players ** => a mid average WL will impact and DPS much more than a good Slayer on overall gamestyle.
Is it fair ? don't think so and in the end it's easy to explain why there is so many WL since 2 years... and All good players (except somes in a Dwarf hard style like me) has switched to WL.
Same debate between Engineer and Shadow Warriors.

We can read destro guys = Slayer is right in the place - that the WL which need a nerf.
Don't fully agree because, like rampage before - Destro complain now on WL BECAUSE it is the main class which can be better than DPS Destro in the main gamestyle (WB in open RvR - zerg vs zerrg) and it is jealousy i think
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Anyway, Slayer is my Main Character - rr 87 (nearly 88) and here my "2 cent" input....
Somes of them are not agreed by Slayers players themselves I think - but I will explain my reasons.

1) Ban the RETALERT add-on

First of all. Like nerfed button, this add-on kill the gameskill of the players on channelling spells.
For those which have this addon, it is so easy to counter the Slayer (and specially the Retribution/rune of Absorption chan).

2) Make real ST 2h Spec

That's actually simple a joke this spec. Rework the mecha or just diminushing the number of ST exhaustive blow habilities.
The proposal on Deathblow reading above seems very interesting i think.

Switch tactic power throught / violent impact
switch Fierce might instead of determination

Adding the ST Slayers real CC like - add a disarm / Add a strong root

3) transfert Pounce from WL to Slayers

WL has 2 kitting counter tools (lion grap / pounce) and Slayer is the only mDPS of the game with no Kitting counters (Choppa -> GTDC)
And ... Just because, at least, it is more Roleplay

4) Stop the Accuracy dependance

We are the only class which have a tactics whic impact 3 different spells (Flurry - ID - Retrib) and adding a nerf on AA also ..
That's choice explained most of the problem of balance on this class - and it was the most bad idea !

OK to have a tactic whic grant the AoE aera on Flurry instead of Lower dmg (as previously)
but
Suppr Retribution reflect on tactic (let core as before) or add a Grap like GTDC
Suppr AA debuff
and Transform ID to give a systematic 8 sec DoT as proposed if you want to touch ID
(And change ID without accuracy tactic with 10 sec and tick between 4 to 8).

5) Rampage

I am those which understand the Rampage rework - before It was a bit insane yes, but logical to have as the destro have much more tanks than order and they have strong powerfull ones - We were here to cleanse the line.
more seriously
Maybe a 50% strikethrought would be better with a switch with the ST debuff heal scale level on trollslayer tree that would be better and more useful than a low 20% strikethrought (somes ranged have easily 15% strikethrought by a tactic all the time)
that's I think.

6) Detaunt

with powerthrough tactic - make Detaunt clean the rage and come back to green.
I am not of those which want a berzerk rage all the time - remember that the def (armor / resist) are 50% lower. a Detaunt still in red is simply finally useless when you have all magi / shaman / SH Dots/Sorc sequence on you .... and these guys overrange on your 25ft detaunt

As least, the detaunt is managed like a def buff for a couple of seconds. That will gave a small real chance of survival for the Slayers - compared to a 5 sec loss of dps...
The less dead you are, the stronger you are.

7) M2 morale
Juste have the same than WL -

The topic starter's suggestion may be perfectly suited to the lore, but it doesn't fit the reality of this game. In fact, lemao has already described what a slayer is quite well, albeit in general terms. I'll describe it briefly with a few additions:
1. High pressure on opponents (and not only on opponents ((: )).
2. High dependence (in 2x slayers, it's too high, even for a character like a slayer) on others.
3. Anti-melee (reflected in high pressure on melee players). 4. Countered by ranged damage.
5. Of course, high risks - high reward.
You're suggesting mitigating some of this list. However, in your proposal you touch upon Wild Swing - the ability in its current form is really very strange, and the balance of the group really should pay attention to it. Also Deahtblow is a "finisher" also not so bad without +50% of crit damage.

Regarding my wishes for the 2h Slayer rework:
After playing for over a week in a 3/6man party, I can highlight the following pros and cons:
Pros.
- Powerful burst (really powerful). Especially if your target is in a party that uses a variety of buffs to save their members (Thanks, Spellbreaker).
- If you use short temper, you can effectively split your damage across multiple targets, creating pressure.
- Decent CC (Power Trought + Incapacitate).

Cons.
-2h Slayer is slow for this type of damage dealer - it's a burst character who needs to use at least 3 GCDs for an effective burst (Devostate + HD + Relentless, and only then Spellbreaker + Deathblow - the main burst. It's also highly recommended to use Onslaught before all of this). A minimum of 3 GCDs each lasting 1.5 seconds in a normal situation, which precedes you before you deal massive damage. Other burst-based classes typically use 2-3 GCDs maximum (WL - Amordebuff -> Pack Assault/Coordinate Strike + Finisher (if available) - damage starts from the first GCD (Amordebuff hits hard, and then the main damage)). Simply put, targets have a large window for reaction - automatically a hard increase in the window for killing, and the time for this slayer is less than for the others. WL is just an example. WH/WE are about the same. I specifically didn't take into account DoTs for other classes (a Slayer needs them more often, which is ironic), because you don't use a full heavy burst that often.

- Extremely low survivability. So low that the damage and utility from this slayer are barely covered.

The second drawback is key and exacerbates the first. You simply have too little time before you have to ease off your pressure and "get out," or simply before you die, before you can do anything what will have real result sigh "+".

To be fair, it should be noted that the key drawback has become less acute since the patch with stacking damage reduction effects, but it's still very noticeable.

My suggestions for a rework of a 2H slayer:
- Focus on the survivability for a slayer. Give him more time to do something. Additional saves. For example, you could have a % damage reduction save, preferably outside of the GCD/ you could also add -crit/ Disrupt/Dodge/Parry... You could still give them control over the rage—for example, one ability would still drop rage bypassing rage tactic, except for Flee. There are many options. Just direction - survivability.

- An option to increase damage and the speed of its application. Less conditioning, more results. A dangerous option because there's a high probability that one will be too strong or too weak. Finding the right balance can be difficult, plus there's a chance it will turn into a "tier" with very quick destruction for both sides. Didn't manage to kill that slayer in 1 second (exaggerating)? Die in 1 second (also exaggerating).
How could this be implemented? For example, in the Giant tree there's a very strange thing called "cleft in twain"—I don't know why "it" is there, but it clearly doesn't deserve to be there. For example, make it a "long relentless" option.
You can implement short temper when using two-handed weapons and add spellbreaker and deathblow to the ignore list for other reducers like WW or short temper itself (to avoid the effect of them not having a cooldown).

Personally, I think the best option is improving survivability (1) or a mix of 1 and 2.