Return of Reckoning

make video how you killing low we's as asw is kind of a bit lame

hordak774 wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 5:52 pm make video how you killing low we's as asw is kind of a bit lame

Killsatva is 88
Erinnys is 84
Lassassa is 81
Togekiss is 89
Etnavanhinten is 71
Gutalax is 79
Sucza is 79
Hagy is 78
Chamrodia is 69
Agustina is 85
Pixu is 85

These are low WE? Also remember that majority of these fights I did while being in rr60~ myself.

Stinksuit wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 5:40 pm

vipevox wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 3:53 pm

Stinksuit wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 3:43 pm

Positional hits in this game are sadly what it is. Often times caused by ping and people playing from different parts of the world. If we use let's say WE throw dagger as example, if the SW is strafing facing left, the WE would have to be on the right side of the SW in order to get the slow out. This is ofcourse not fool proof since the SW could just turn while the dagger is mid flight..

Afaik the interrupts with jump doesnt work anymore but yeah I do remember the frustration while playing mara and your pull being rendered useless by simply jumping xD

The same example with daggers and slowdown can be easily fixed by expanding the area of effect not only to the back but also to the sides, as it works with backstabs and armor penetration. They work from the side too. Cast interruption by jumping still works otherwise half the server wouldn't be jumping in RVR)

I mean sometimes abilities that can only be used from behind get parried for example.

Do you have examples of abilities that get interrupted by jumping? I havent personally noticed anything getting cancelled because of jumping.

I cant speak for half the server but for me jumping helps with kiting and certain keybinds are easier for me to press when I'm jumping.

I'm more about the fact that by moving sideways on strafes you can avoid the slowdown that should work from behind. This is a kind of exploit, since the ability and its declared actions are disrupted. This is clearly visible in your video.
As for the interruption by jumping, I noticed this with the shaman and his beam, but for a final statement it needs to be tested.

vipevox wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 7:21 pm

Stinksuit wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 5:40 pm

vipevox wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 3:53 pm

The same example with daggers and slowdown can be easily fixed by expanding the area of effect not only to the back but also to the sides, as it works with backstabs and armor penetration. They work from the side too. Cast interruption by jumping still works otherwise half the server wouldn't be jumping in RVR)

I mean sometimes abilities that can only be used from behind get parried for example.

Do you have examples of abilities that get interrupted by jumping? I havent personally noticed anything getting cancelled because of jumping.

I cant speak for half the server but for me jumping helps with kiting and certain keybinds are easier for me to press when I'm jumping.

I'm more about the fact that by moving sideways on strafes you can avoid the slowdown that should work from behind. This is a kind of exploit, since the ability and its declared actions are disrupted. This is clearly visible in your video.
As for the interruption by jumping, I noticed this with the shaman and his beam, but for a final statement it needs to be tested.

Well its not meant to slow from sides but I understand your point. Its quite annoying when I play my WH/WE and the snare just doesn't go through.

About the spells getting interrupted by jumping, I'm fairly certain that doesn't happen. Not atleast because of the jumping. Channels are quite messed anyway and they break even from the slightest if los etc

vipevox wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 7:21 pm

Stinksuit wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 5:40 pm

vipevox wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 3:53 pm

The same example with daggers and slowdown can be easily fixed by expanding the area of effect not only to the back but also to the sides, as it works with backstabs and armor penetration. They work from the side too. Cast interruption by jumping still works otherwise half the server wouldn't be jumping in RVR)

I mean sometimes abilities that can only be used from behind get parried for example.

Do you have examples of abilities that get interrupted by jumping? I havent personally noticed anything getting cancelled because of jumping.

I cant speak for half the server but for me jumping helps with kiting and certain keybinds are easier for me to press when I'm jumping.

I'm more about the fact that by moving sideways on strafes you can avoid the slowdown that should work from behind. This is a kind of exploit, since the ability and its declared actions are disrupted. This is clearly visible in your video.
As for the interruption by jumping, I noticed this with the shaman and his beam, but for a final statement it needs to be tested.

So kiting is now an exploit? And what 'declared actions are disrupted'? Someone perfectly strafe kiting (which isn't always trivially easy to do btw), so never showing you their back, not being snared by an ability that only works from behind? But yeah, turning it into a spammable snare from 65ft by an mdps that also works from the side, so largely can't be countered (for long), sounds brilliant. Particularly on a stealth class that's also *already* been given insta stealth, charge, leap in WEs case. Lol.

sundey wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 10:50 pm

vipevox wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 7:21 pm

Stinksuit wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 5:40 pm

I mean sometimes abilities that can only be used from behind get parried for example.

Do you have examples of abilities that get interrupted by jumping? I havent personally noticed anything getting cancelled because of jumping.

I cant speak for half the server but for me jumping helps with kiting and certain keybinds are easier for me to press when I'm jumping.

I'm more about the fact that by moving sideways on strafes you can avoid the slowdown that should work from behind. This is a kind of exploit, since the ability and its declared actions are disrupted. This is clearly visible in your video.
As for the interruption by jumping, I noticed this with the shaman and his beam, but for a final statement it needs to be tested.

So kiting is now an exploit? And what 'declared actions are disrupted'? Someone perfectly strafe kiting (which isn't always trivially easy to do btw), so never showing you their back, not being snared by an ability that only works from behind? But yeah, turning it into a spammable snare from 65ft by an mdps that also works from the side, so largely can't be countered (for long), sounds brilliant. Particularly on a stealth class that's also *already* been given insta stealth, charge, leap in WEs case. Lol.

quite a few regen WE's are running the snare weapon which can be quite annoying from time to time.. Kinda wish that ASW would get that weapon too since we dont really have any snares other than the off sov 7pc? iirc and ofcourse Takedown but I would kinda wish Takedown had a melee version :)

sundey wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 10:50 pm

vipevox wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 7:21 pm

Stinksuit wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 5:40 pm

I mean sometimes abilities that can only be used from behind get parried for example.

Do you have examples of abilities that get interrupted by jumping? I havent personally noticed anything getting cancelled because of jumping.

I cant speak for half the server but for me jumping helps with kiting and certain keybinds are easier for me to press when I'm jumping.

I'm more about the fact that by moving sideways on strafes you can avoid the slowdown that should work from behind. This is a kind of exploit, since the ability and its declared actions are disrupted. This is clearly visible in your video.
As for the interruption by jumping, I noticed this with the shaman and his beam, but for a final statement it needs to be tested.

So kiting is now an exploit? And what 'declared actions are disrupted'? Someone perfectly strafe kiting (which isn't always trivially easy to do btw), so never showing you their back, not being snared by an ability that only works from behind? But yeah, turning it into a spammable snare from 65ft by an mdps that also works from the side, so largely can't be countered (for long), sounds brilliant. Particularly on a stealth class that's also *already* been given insta stealth, charge, leap in WEs case. Lol.

That's exactly it. Because the one who is chasing can't respond to the strafe movements. And his ability doesn't allow him to slow down the target, no matter how much he jumps, rolls or squats. This is gaining an advantage by using the shortcomings of positioning. Of course, you can consider this a skill, as many people think, but in reality it's closer to an exploit, and a deliberate one at that. In fact, with the old ability system, this didn't work as it does now, and the percentage of success was noticeably higher. It was possible to avoid slowing down with a certain positioning, but it was more of an exception than a rule.

I will supplement my position with certain arguments. To avoid slowing down traps, etc., certain classes have a special application that allows you to avoid the above for a short time. But for this you need to spend action points, time and only for a short time to get immunity, while also getting a long-term cooldown to restore the ability. And in the case of movement in a zone, the player, even without having such capabilities in his arsenal, can ignore the slowdown simply by moving in a certain way. According to your logic, this is not a violation of the balance? And please note that in the very first message, I do not directly blame the player for this, but point to the crookedness of the positioning work. Since it is obvious that players will always use any tools to gain an advantage.

vipevox wrote: Sun Aug 17, 2025 8:30 am

sundey wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 10:50 pm

vipevox wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 7:21 pm

I'm more about the fact that by moving sideways on strafes you can avoid the slowdown that should work from behind. This is a kind of exploit, since the ability and its declared actions are disrupted. This is clearly visible in your video.
As for the interruption by jumping, I noticed this with the shaman and his beam, but for a final statement it needs to be tested.

So kiting is now an exploit? And what 'declared actions are disrupted'? Someone perfectly strafe kiting (which isn't always trivially easy to do btw), so never showing you their back, not being snared by an ability that only works from behind? But yeah, turning it into a spammable snare from 65ft by an mdps that also works from the side, so largely can't be countered (for long), sounds brilliant. Particularly on a stealth class that's also *already* been given insta stealth, charge, leap in WEs case. Lol.

That's exactly it. Because the one who is chasing can't respond to the strafe movements. And his ability doesn't allow him to slow down the target, no matter how much he jumps, rolls or squats. This is gaining an advantage by using the shortcomings of positioning. Of course, you can consider this a skill, as many people think, but in reality it's closer to an exploit, and a deliberate one at that. In fact, with the old ability system, this didn't work as it does now, and the percentage of success was noticeably higher. It was possible to avoid slowing down with a certain positioning, but it was more of an exception than a rule.

Biggest reason why WE/WH slow dagger/gunshot snare worked better before was because there was no real reason for people to strafe. You could just run normally and shoot arrows from you bum so most didn't bother with strafing. I can't say I agree that doing very basic MMO movement is ''exploit''. There are things WE/WH can do to make the chance for the snare to proc higher, which I explained in this thread already and I know its much worse than what it used to be since I have also played my WE before and after the changes. :)

Stinksuit wrote: Sun Aug 17, 2025 8:50 am

vipevox wrote: Sun Aug 17, 2025 8:30 am

sundey wrote: Sat Aug 16, 2025 10:50 pm


So kiting is now an exploit? And what 'declared actions are disrupted'? Someone perfectly strafe kiting (which isn't always trivially easy to do btw), so never showing you their back, not being snared by an ability that only works from behind? But yeah, turning it into a spammable snare from 65ft by an mdps that also works from the side, so largely can't be countered (for long), sounds brilliant. Particularly on a stealth class that's also *already* been given insta stealth, charge, leap in WEs case. Lol.

That's exactly it. Because the one who is chasing can't respond to the strafe movements. And his ability doesn't allow him to slow down the target, no matter how much he jumps, rolls or squats. This is gaining an advantage by using the shortcomings of positioning. Of course, you can consider this a skill, as many people think, but in reality it's closer to an exploit, and a deliberate one at that. In fact, with the old ability system, this didn't work as it does now, and the percentage of success was noticeably higher. It was possible to avoid slowing down with a certain positioning, but it was more of an exception than a rule.

Biggest reason why WE/WH slow dagger/gunshot snare worked better before was because there was no real reason for people to strafe. You could just run normally and shoot arrows from you bum so most didn't bother with strafing. I can't say I agree that doing very basic MMO movement is ''exploit''. There are things WE/WH can do to make the chance for the snare to proc higher, which I explained in this thread already and I know its much worse than what it used to be since I have also played my WE before and after the changes.

Of course, I know about the delayed daggers, but I'm still talking about something else. And I've updated my answer above.

vipevox wrote: Sun Aug 17, 2025 8:53 am

Stinksuit wrote: Sun Aug 17, 2025 8:50 am

vipevox wrote: Sun Aug 17, 2025 8:30 am

That's exactly it. Because the one who is chasing can't respond to the strafe movements. And his ability doesn't allow him to slow down the target, no matter how much he jumps, rolls or squats. This is gaining an advantage by using the shortcomings of positioning. Of course, you can consider this a skill, as many people think, but in reality it's closer to an exploit, and a deliberate one at that. In fact, with the old ability system, this didn't work as it does now, and the percentage of success was noticeably higher. It was possible to avoid slowing down with a certain positioning, but it was more of an exception than a rule.

Biggest reason why WE/WH slow dagger/gunshot snare worked better before was because there was no real reason for people to strafe. You could just run normally and shoot arrows from you bum so most didn't bother with strafing. I can't say I agree that doing very basic MMO movement is ''exploit''. There are things WE/WH can do to make the chance for the snare to proc higher, which I explained in this thread already and I know its much worse than what it used to be since I have also played my WE before and after the changes. :)

Of course, I know about the delayed daggers, but I'm still talking about something else. And I've updated my answer above.

If you're not talking about the throwing dagger/gunshot that slows then I'm not sure what it is about :D

The movement or jumping alone doesn't prevent any enemy spell casts like for example how jumping used to cancel mara pull. Atleast I am not aware of anything like that and none of the people I asked about this were either. If you know some enemy casts that get interrupted by jumping or movement its probably a good idea to bug tracker it and hopefully there is a fix to it. Only thing that comes to my mind are the melee channels that get instantly cancelled if someone moves out of range or to the side enough so the cast is not within the hit range. Ofcourse that can be done for range channels too but the radius is much bigger than it is for melee channels.