Return of Reckoning

I do think morale damage should be rework way higher than it currently is, it will benefit the game by a lot. Something around 6-8k morale damage.

The game is based around morale in every aspect of the game it doesn't matter if you like it or not. It was part of the only tool for smaller number to do smthg against a zerg (this + Aoe healing debuff 50%). This cap ALSO prevent diversity about comp for Orvr/small man. (We used to run double WE or double WH 12 man comp for exemple to cheese people with morale damage ST damage and less aoe damage. You just can't do it anymore since the only thing you care is about how much target you gonna hit with your raw Aoe)



The argument even by the most let's call them "Veteran" saying that it was a bad ERA because you could OS stuff is just a L2P issue by them nothing more.

You'd counter for this "Morale drain" and "movement" (To hard to spread for people and play the acutal game maybe ?). We used to face 14k morale damage WB and yet we were not getting wipe or OS at all and still we were in invader ERA so we had between 7-8k wounds at this time.

Now we're more around 8k5-9k5.

You can check those few video: https://www.youtube.com/@nge5188

UNCAP morale damage do you see us wiping completly instantly in oRvr/ Gvg or city ?



And yes we were super active at that time so i know what i 'm talking about, and i can discuss extensively with DEV if they want about what was good, to OP or anything else that has been change since then for 12men /18 men / 24 man orvr/city content.



Overall, with all the change that have been occured since the morale UNCAP. I can tell you that the "bad thing" about it will be less concerning in this current version of the game.

I would just increase the cap to 6-8k morale damage and not uncaping it completly as a first test.




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Obvisouly, we've 6vs6 players on this post that are concern and completly biased about their own content without thinking more than 10 sec at how to give a solution to their content. I'll give you one.

You have a Wounds dampening right now, which is probably bad in the current states because realisticly you can do a stalling comp and wait for the dampening and just drop morale to win and nobody gonna have fun to play against that.

You just have to put morale dampening aswell as wounds. When you've 6k hp you don't need morale damage anymore, a single go will secure a kill without morale damage.

YW

BLUF: Changing morale for oRVR purposes is a bad idea.

Explanation: Attempting to change one core gameplay mechanic that affects every style of play, such as morale, to favor one style of play (orvr) over another (small man) is a fool's errand. It inevitably causes follow-on effects that can adversely affect the enjoyment of the game in other forms of gameplay. Any change that aims to to have a meaningful and beneficial impact will have to involve an independent mechanic that affects ONLY that style of play.

Counter-point/suggestion: The best way to negate the benefits of zerging would be to introduce a mechanic that ties AOE cap to AAO. This would allow for a separate mechanic to be tweaked to adjust for zerging, while having no follow-on effect to other forms of gameplay.

gersy wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 5:25 pm it's like you reply without reading anything i said. this is why all think it's absolutely pointless to converse with you tbh, that and you think you can never be wrong and insert rudeness in to all your commentary. it's honestly tiresome to read all of it. those like you, and others in this thread, who are just solely invested in the failing dream of 6v6 being actual content again and not being well versed in anything else outside of scripted, controlled environments that secure your ability to win simply can't fathom changes that might hurt your precious, but dead and trash tier, game mode which is going even deeper down the drain with each passing season that sees only wintraders queueing granked and 0 solo queue games occurring.

Excuse me? I don’t recall mentioning anything about v6 in this discussion. "Others like me" are simply concerned about the idea of removing the damage cap—because we have seen firsthand how certain balance disparities in the past led to the decision to cap morale damage in the first place.
As for the rest of your message, I’m not sure why, but it gives me the impression that my previous statement may have triggered an overly emotional reaction. If there’s an issue that needs clarification, feel free to PM me via Discord because as far as I can recall you were very eager to join v6 a year prior to this.

Ywhi wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:31 pm The argument even by the most let's call them "Veteran" saying that it was a bad ERA because you could OS stuff is just a L2P issue by them nothing more.

"Veteran"s also formerly known as "Others like me" absolutely agree with your PoV as an inactive player Ywhi. Perhaps if this change makes you come back we should give it a try permanently. Clearly, you must be right—it’s just a learn-to-play issue if a timed morale bomb one-shots a guarded target, whether in the so-called "main content" or Scenarios. After all, the sheer effort of counting down to the coordinated 1 button gaming surely deserves to be rewarded.

Aluviya wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 3:30 am
As for the rest of your message, I’m not sure why, but it gives me the impression that my previous statement may have triggered an overly emotional reaction. If there’s an issue that needs clarification, feel free to PM me via Discord because as far as I can recall you were very eager to join v6 a year prior to this.

You got be kidding me, every time someone disagree with you, you gonna say it's an "overly emotional reaction" ? ELMAO idk man maybe it's time to change sentence it's starting to be boring ?

Ywhi wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:31 pm The argument even by the most let's call them "Veteran" saying that it was a bad ERA because you could OS stuff is just a L2P issue by them nothing more.

Aluviya wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 3:30 am "Veteran"s also formerly known as "Others like me" absolutely agree with your PoV as an inactive player Ywhi. Perhaps if this change makes you come back we should give it a try permanently. Clearly, you must be right—it’s just a learn-to-play issue if a timed morale bomb one-shots a guarded target, whether in the so-called "main content" or Scenarios. After all, the sheer effort of counting down to the coordinated 1 button gaming surely deserves to be rewarded.

Inactive of what ? Orvr ? yes i don't play that much this content anymore (only time to time when everyone is online) because it's really in a bad shape for 12 man, everything has been strip down and 12 men as absoloutly no impact (doesn't matter about how skilled player are)

My man, you're putting word but you've absolutly no clue about what you're talking about. All you do is playing 6 men, few SC out off EU prime time when there were no people to fight against and doing 6vs6 (Which is your main content) (I would have seen you with my mates the previous 3 years otherwise). You're not doing any organize city since how long ? You have no Clue how to play WB size or how a 12 is build in orvr, so spare me this kind of answer.

(I'll give you on thing, i've seen you a bit the last few months in EU prime time queuing SC)

Coordinate 24 man or even 18 man morale drop in orvr/city/gvg perfectly each time, and come back to tell me how easy it is. (Obviously you've never done it )

Why denying that the content most People are playing this game for orvr big battle and not for SC/City/Gvg/6vs6 even if it's my favorites content aswell, i know this not what most people enjoy/ (6vs6 being even more nich that everything else). And the game need to shift and balance toward that (idk if you're aware but they're making the server live not us)

idk why you're that stubborn to regnoize it every time we talk about 6vs6 being "super nich". Keep being delusionnal about it or on cop but idk open your eyes at some point it's just number. (If people were interested into ranked don't you think with the effort of Dalen working constantly on it since YEARS, doesn't matter what he does, ranked doesn't last more than 1 or 2 weeks every time and there are probably let's being nice 15-20 teams doing few matches and this is gone.)

You're probably the most biased guy toward the content you want to push only and not improve the overall game at all. (Probably lack of knowledge)

So bambi, i've no interest to talk to you since you've absolutly no argument beside saying "I'm the smallscale player, i'm right your wrong in every conversation we had in the past" or "You're emotional, for no reason to someone that just disagreeing with you"

Atleast i give you the solution for your 6vs6 content to avoid cheesing. You do nothing.

I was just giving my point of view and argumentation about how bad morale damage cap (this low) hurt the game. Being MA and playing every content of the game as to offer on each realm of the game since 6+years, i think i've a good overview how the game is played. : )

Cheers

Ywhi wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 11:48 am usualy discord/forum pvp Ywhining

I hate to say it but we are derailing the topic, you specifically. I will keep it short and simple, do a fact check instead of forum pvp/discord pvp ty.

Brennika wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 1:30 am BLUF: Changing morale for oRVR purposes is a bad idea.

Explanation: Attempting to change one core gameplay mechanic that affects every style of play, such as morale, to favor one style of play (orvr) over another (small man) is a fool's errand. It inevitably causes follow-on effects that can adversely affect the enjoyment of the game in other forms of gameplay. Any change that aims to to have a meaningful and beneficial impact will have to involve an independent mechanic that affects ONLY that style of play.

Counter-point/suggestion: The best way to negate the benefits of zerging would be to introduce a mechanic that ties AOE cap to AAO. This would allow for a separate mechanic to be tweaked to adjust for zerging, while having no follow-on effect to other forms of gameplay.

Think this nails it. Ty for the quality post.

Aluviya wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 1:02 pm

Ywhi wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 11:48 am usualy discord/forum pvp Ywhining

I hate to say it but we are derailing the topic, you specifically. I will keep it short and simple, do a fact check instead of forum pvp/discord pvp ty.

Brennika wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 1:30 am BLUF: Changing morale for oRVR purposes is a bad idea.

Explanation: Attempting to change one core gameplay mechanic that affects every style of play, such as morale, to favor one style of play (orvr) over another (small man) is a fool's errand. It inevitably causes follow-on effects that can adversely affect the enjoyment of the game in other forms of gameplay. Any change that aims to to have a meaningful and beneficial impact will have to involve an independent mechanic that affects ONLY that style of play.

Counter-point/suggestion: The best way to negate the benefits of zerging would be to introduce a mechanic that ties AOE cap to AAO. This would allow for a separate mechanic to be tweaked to adjust for zerging, while having no follow-on effect to other forms of gameplay.

Think this nails it. Ty for the quality post.

Simply tying AOE Cap to AAO is very nice and easy solution.

Sinisterror wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 1:46 pm

Aluviya wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 1:02 pm

Ywhi wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 11:48 am usualy discord/forum pvp Ywhining

I hate to say it but we are derailing the topic, you specifically. I will keep it short and simple, do a fact check instead of forum pvp/discord pvp ty.

Brennika wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 1:30 am BLUF: Changing morale for oRVR purposes is a bad idea.

Explanation: Attempting to change one core gameplay mechanic that affects every style of play, such as morale, to favor one style of play (orvr) over another (small man) is a fool's errand. It inevitably causes follow-on effects that can adversely affect the enjoyment of the game in other forms of gameplay. Any change that aims to to have a meaningful and beneficial impact will have to involve an independent mechanic that affects ONLY that style of play.

Counter-point/suggestion: The best way to negate the benefits of zerging would be to introduce a mechanic that ties AOE cap to AAO. This would allow for a separate mechanic to be tweaked to adjust for zerging, while having no follow-on effect to other forms of gameplay.

Think this nails it. Ty for the quality post.

Simply tying AOE Cap to AAO is very nice and easy solution.

last time devs tried to cap AOE damage server literally imploded and discord was a ragefest.

Lion1986 wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 2:06 pm

Sinisterror wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 1:46 pm

Aluviya wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 1:02 pm

I hate to say it but we are derailing the topic, you specifically. I will keep it short and simple, do a fact check instead of forum pvp/discord pvp ty.


Think this nails it. Ty for the quality post.

Simply tying AOE Cap to AAO is very nice and easy solution.

last time devs tried to cap AOE damage server literally imploded and discord was a ragefest.

We are in the age of AI. I am sure one could find a sweet spot that could be acceptable ~the data should be somewhat there.

Lion1986 wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 2:06 pm

Sinisterror wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 1:46 pm

Aluviya wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 1:02 pm

I hate to say it but we are derailing the topic, you specifically. I will keep it short and simple, do a fact check instead of forum pvp/discord pvp ty.


Think this nails it. Ty for the quality post.

Simply tying AOE Cap to AAO is very nice and easy solution.

last time devs tried to cap AOE damage server literally imploded and discord was a ragefest.

I mean Cap targets from 9 to 24 depending on AAO. No changes to the dmg %, I remember video where marauder did 2-3k aoe crits spamming 1 abiility so yeah didnt work : D

gersy wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 5:14 pm

Hugatsaga wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2025 1:16 pm

gersy wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:48 pm that said, removing the morale damage cap is the one good idea of the entire thread so far. it would help to bust zergs and promote smallscale gameplay again where 6-12mans can actively fight against 24+ and have a realistic chance.

No it's not good idea at all. Watch this vid around 20 sec forward from timestamp I linked and then tell me how uncapped morale dmg is promoting small scale play again:

https://youtu.be/4SBnfx3rKog?si=LNqw_nRfiZu0Kc52&t=91

Granted, with higher aoe dmg (regular or morale) small mans can blow up zergs better in general but turning both small scale and large scale into morale dump fiesta is not the answer.

maybe is not healthy for 6v6 but this is not the primary content of the game, so your clip is valid but at the same time it's 1% of playerbase who cares about this content. + this gonna happen all the time now in ranked with the new wounds debuff thing they added, you're gonna have 5k hp and die to m2 drop. as well as even without this wounds debuff, you've a lot of comps who just rely on m4 drops historically to kill people with or without cap (we+choppa, sl+wh, wh+wl, etc.) so what changes really? get a warlord tank or class with morale burn on kit and don't let them abuse you like your clip shows.

it's healthier for rvr, which is the content that 95% of players mainly engage in and the biggest draw of this game to begin with, because it makes people want to zerg less as they can be deleted if they do 48man standing on the same 5ft area like we have now.

years ago it was uncapped and people had even less hp due to less gear being available and the game was thriving and fine in most opinion, more than it is now anyway. it was fun to be able to go 12v24, 18v24 GvG or even 6v24 with morale bombs and be able to outplay people who just took advantage of body stacking - this is a lot harder to do now as a result of morale damage being capped.

Pretending like this will not apply anywhere than closed 6vs6 sc just because video was taken from there is just dishonest. Like Aluviya pointed out, small scale happens in every sc and in ORVR all the time outside of main fight.

With morale dmg cap gone, pvp in general would possibly shift more towards cagey deftard setups (snb axe slam ibs and such) and especially playstyle would revolve around pre-building morale and like always, bigger organized zerg/wb beats smaller because they can morale dump too.

On a side note idk why people whine about 12 man ”small scale” not working in orvr at least without zerg surfing. We play with 2-4 (sometimes 5, very rarely 6) ppl in orvr all the time. You get zerged occasionally but it can work. On a plus side you get more hard fights because even mediocere 6 man is tough when you are 4.