Reduce the tankiness of healers and healer hybrids

[Dackjanielz]

Nerf healers and you get less players playing healers and less heals simple as that

Allready a dps oriented blob fiesta but I guess some are incapable

Not really related to op tbh

Spoiler:

Observation: The lack of real balancing (or slow pace), matchmaker excellence and low retention % of new players is also starting to hurt the game and I guess (lets hope I am wrong) we we will see a 50% pop 2025.

Yeah the game is already heavily DPS focused - especially with the recent nerfs to healing already - you get no renown being outside of warbands and i know im put right off the archtype, you literally get rewarded more being a dps spec its quite ridiculous frankly.

[Caduceus]

Let me ask you, would you rather..

A. Remove Grimnir's Shield from Rune Priest
or
B. Give DPS classes cooldowns similar to it?

I'm not sure why I would want either of those. Perhaps you could explain what the purpose would be behind the options.

Now you mentioned that DPS are forced to go completely glass cannon.

That's not what I said.

What I said was stacking defenses will leave your damage gimped. Obviously even DPS must have a minimum of defenses to avoid turning themselves into a liability.

And of course, the less competitive the setting, the more you can get away with.

I'm assuming that a lot of the people complaining about Healer survivability are solo players. Adding depth to under-designed classes brings UP solo players even moreso because it adds power exclusively to a single player's kit and thus, to player agency. The gameplay of RoR is only a few steps away from feeling a little more similar to say.. WoW or SWTOR PvP where solo players tend to feel a lot more comfortable. Now I'm not saying that we should add a ton of things, just enough to increase the richness of the game for everyone, without taking away from Warhammer Online's Group and Support-based design.

Well, I'm not a solo player, and I don't think solo play should be much of a factor in balancing.

[normanis]

game become aoe dps friendly and nerfing healers ppl willplay lesss tham. buff healing outside party/wb. healers need buff not nerf.
also premades stomping so hard new/returning + pugs that ppl have no willing even play. no wonder all this t1 events bring less players. what they see after t1? all game siting in respawn point isnt balanced game.
byt we have tools like ranked so ppl know what clases qued more and what qued less.

[Bozzax]

So what class and name do you use when you have trouble killing a healer?

I think we need more background info, all healers or just "named" healers. What spec do you use (point tree distribution is enough)? In what setting rvr, wb play, scs, group roam?

Ps. Not even on my solo sorc do I think healers on general are tanky (and solo sorcs are so ill suited at this it is near unbelievable). Yep I'm r... enough to play this the few times I log these days

ds. Im also just a slightly near avg player but still don't see the problem (Iam mostly handing out renonw points)

[Caduceus]

The argument that healers already have it tough seems an odd one to me.

Healers are obviously more survivable than DPS, and DPS have to expose themselves in order to carry out their role.

So if the argument is that healers are already struggling, then surely DPS must be unplayable.

But it seems obvious to me that this isn't the case.

In my personal experience it is very easy to keep myself out of harm's way with good positioning and I'm virtually always the last in my group to die. The high survivability is just a bonus for when all else fails.

I think RvR can sometimes create false impressions, because when you get blind-sided by a warband or bulldozed by several, things start to feel really unfair and imbalanced when in fact you just got caught in a bad spot.

[Bozzax]

Setting, spec, name, class, gear then lets talk. You make sweeping claims "based on your experience" and we need to figure out the context here

Tanks are more durable then dps heals are more sustainable then dps but again I fail to see the logic of this thread. Also a ranged dps won't die often this also carries no real value in this discussion.

Lets also talk about if "dying last" while being far away is a good metric in game where you typically is outnumbered when not blobbing and zerg surfing

[Caduceus]

So what class and name do you use when you have trouble killing a healer?

This is not really the type of argument I am making, Bozzax, so I'm not sure what you're expecting of me.

I'm talking about the general position of healers in the meta (Not "Class A can't beat Class B"). My observations are based on group play with all three roles on BiS characters, and my argument applies to pretty much all modes of play except large-scale RvR.

[Bozzax]

/end talking

It is your opinion mate but since I know most descent healers on both sides by name and you prefer to say you are hard to kill "incognito-mode" I have no real way to figure out if this holds merit or just is fluff

Ps again my perspective being slightly below average is that I have no problem killing a healer when we assist and I likely will die to a good tank + dps pair if I don't get support.

[Nameless]

Healers at premades are tough to being killed cos they got support from their teammates.
Healers defence tools are with relatively high cds so after initial engage when healer use most tools they got relatively easy target to engage.
Healers real protection comes from tanks toolkit, they survive not cos outheal the damage but cos the incomming damage is hugely reduce

[tazdingo]

I agree with the sentiment that stacking willpower should achieve more, I have no real opinions on anything else. going "glass" as a healer because you trust your positioning should be rewarded. rn there's little reason not to stack max survivability