Buff Tank ability: Guard

[sullemunk]

The only thing id like to be able to do is guard friends who are not in my group so i can help save peoples lived better, but admittedly, balance wise this could be rough.

To my knowledge the cap limited is only 2 guards per target right?
you cant have 3 guys guarding a single person can you?

That might be enough to keep things in line perhaps.

You can have up to 5 persons guarding a player, but only the closest one will share the damage

[Ysaran]

The only thing id like to be able to do is guard friends who are not in my group so i can help save peoples lived better, but admittedly, balance wise this could be rough.

To my knowledge the cap limited is only 2 guards per target right?
you cant have 3 guys guarding a single person can you?

That might be enough to keep things in line perhaps.

Abilities don't stack with abilities. So, if you and anothe person debuff a stat to a certain target, let's say toughness, then only the higher debuff applies. Same goes with guard. If two tanks are guarding the same person, then only the guard of the nearest tank will be considered.

[Ysaran]

As said by @Omegus the problem with guard, with tanks actually, is that it is not showy/flashy. A DPS get kills, while a Healer can see big healing numbers and get thanked per the rezzes. Tanks see nothing. There is no parameter that measure the usefulness of your CCs and no one will thank you for your guard.

About the OP, I am against taking guard off GCD. Group fights, especially in 6v6 and capital, are already extremely long. Instant guard swap would just make them longer and more frustrating.

Maby we should add fireworks everytime a tank blocks/parries a guard (Omegus, modify Bloody mess to trigger flashy lights on guard instead of crits). Joke aside, Players seems to forget that guardswitching wasn't a thing back on live and it took 2 activations of guard to switch (1:st to take it off the old guard, then again to apply it on the new one)

I never played tank on live and honestly my memories of the live server are hazy, I was very young at that time. I think that guard on RoR is in a good place and a buff would make all the fight way more frustrating than now

[Dackjanielz]

The only thing id like to be able to do is guard friends who are not in my group so i can help save peoples lived better, but admittedly, balance wise this could be rough.

To my knowledge the cap limited is only 2 guards per target right?
you cant have 3 guys guarding a single person can you?

That might be enough to keep things in line perhaps.

You can have up to 5 persons guarding a player, but only the closest one will share the damage

Thanks, that sounds like a good mechanic.

[Dobzse]

It is the best ability in the game because it is mandatory for pvp to work. All damage and healing is balanced around guard. As an example: if you had a group vs group fight or warband vs warband (or anything else) where no one used guard, any non-tank would die immediately due to how much that ability affects survivability when combined with healing. It may not be the most fun ability, it may do nothing flashy, but it is the "best" skill in the game.

If you take it off the GCD then within a day you would have an add-on that could automating guard swaps. I know this, because I would write it. And it could not be blocked.

Just add a 2 sec internal cooldown same as knight/chosen auras are now.

[jbrutal]

Buff tanks and guard, nerf healing. Enough of spamming ez mode aoe heals and through walls.

75% reduction dmg to ally 25% to self -with healing % debuff fix armor scaling remove caps reduce overal crit make tanks great.

[Aluviya]

Buff Guard: ability with taking it off the global cooldown, similar to kotbs/chosen auras it should have its own cooldown like 0.5 sec but definetly off the GCD.
It's frustrating when I can't guard switch quick enough eventhough I'am already spamming the guard skill on the right party member.

Also Guard should steal a fixed amount of agroo points from the part member receiving the guard. This would be on top of the passive -35% threat you get from the guarded target. There needs to be a 5-10 second internal cooldown so you don't end up guard swapping the whole party to collect agroo.
This change would allow to make pve fights more interesting for tanks and the party as well, as it enabled active threat management. It would also allow main and off tanks to catch up on agroo.

Please discuss give all your pros and cons.

I strongly disagree with implementing any Global Cooldown (GCD) changes to this ability. It's powerful enough as it is, and altering its GCD requirements would have a significant negative impact on small-scale PvP, such as group ranked matches, where precise timing is crucial. As a veteran, I must assert that anyone advocating for GCD changes to this ability simply lacks the necessary experience in this game. My intention is not to attack anyone, but rather to highlight the delicate balance required in certain aspects of this game's content, such as ranked/group ranked, which many may not be participating in. Due to this, your perspective on this ability is likely based solely on PvE and Orvr/scenarios. However, when it comes to competitive gameplay in this game, even small changes can have extreme effects, and this case is clearly one of them.


However, I do agree that this ability could benefit from improvements in terms of aggro management. The current state of aggro generation is unclear; it's uncertain whether it's broken or if there have been undocumented changes to the system. Nevertheless, there's a noticeable discrepancy in performance, especially evident with certain bosses seemingly immune to aggro generation.

Also there is the thing about builds: From my perspective, many shielded tank builds are currently unviable in PvE. Most two-handed builds offer high levels of parry and sufficient damage output to effectively tank content, while also providing superior aggro generation due to dealing more damage. Shielded builds struggle to maintain aggro because aggro generation scales with damage dealt. For example, in Order, a two-handed Swordmaster is likely the best tank you'd want in PvE. They offer high damage and decent parry, making them highly effective. I see no reason why one would opt for a shield, which offers some block chance but risks struggling with aggro control, especially since most PvE content doesn't require two tanks, and finding even one tank can be difficult enough nowadays.

But that said, it's quite clear that the main issue here lies in the guard switching mechanics (for PVE), but rather in the current state of the broken aggro system.

[Dobzse]

I strongly disagree with implementing any Global Cooldown (GCD) changes to this ability. It's powerful enough as it is, and altering its GCD requirements would have a significant negative impact on small-scale PvP, such as group ranked matches, where precise timing is crucial. As a veteran, I must assert that anyone advocating for GCD changes to this ability simply lacks the necessary experience in this game. My intention is not to attack anyone, but rather to highlight the delicate balance required in certain aspects of this game's content, such as ranked/group ranked, which many may not be participating in. Due to this, your perspective on this ability is likely based solely on PvE and Orvr/scenarios. However, when it comes to competitive gameplay in this game, even small changes can have extreme effects, and this case is clearly one of them.

No sorry my experience is based on all types of content inlcuding small scale and even ranked pvp. I am also a veteran with 3 rr 80 tanks, (not to mention the lost rr80 tanks from live..). I like the fact you mentioned small scale ranked. Precise timing should matter. Soo its okay for you that dps/healers are able to switch target while mid casting, because that is considered high level skill play, but affraid if tanks would be more responsive. So you would rather prefer to outplay tanks because guard is too strong as it is.

I would be happy even if it gets nerfed or changed or put an internal cooldown. My opinion that the current guard should be improved considering all aspects orvr/smallscale/pve. I would like to stop here to mention it is better then what it was on live.

I think if all archtypes will be fine tuned and we are in the "tanks" phase then these discussions needs to happen.

[Aluviya]

I strongly disagree with implementing any Global Cooldown (GCD) changes to this ability. It's powerful enough as it is, and altering its GCD requirements would have a significant negative impact on small-scale PvP, such as group ranked matches, where precise timing is crucial. As a veteran, I must assert that anyone advocating for GCD changes to this ability simply lacks the necessary experience in this game. My intention is not to attack anyone, but rather to highlight the delicate balance required in certain aspects of this game's content, such as ranked/group ranked, which many may not be participating in. Due to this, your perspective on this ability is likely based solely on PvE and Orvr/scenarios. However, when it comes to competitive gameplay in this game, even small changes can have extreme effects, and this case is clearly one of them.

No sorry my experience is based on all types of content inlcuding small scale and even ranked pvp. I am also a veteran with 3 rr 80 tanks, (not to mention the lost rr80 tanks from live..). I like the fact you mentioned small scale ranked. Precise timing should matter. Soo its okay for you that dps/healers are able to switch target while mid casting, because that is considered high level skill play, but affraid if tanks would be more responsive. So you would rather prefer to outplay tanks because guard is too strong as it is.

I would be happy even if it gets nerfed or changed or put an internal cooldown. My opinion that the current guard should be improved considering all aspects orvr/smallscale/pve. I would like to stop here to mention it is better then what it was on live.

I think if all archtypes will be fine tuned and we are in the "tanks" phase then these discussions needs to happen.

I'm not entirely sure I understand your point. What does targeting have to do with guarding in this scenario? Just because a healer or DPS can switch targets while casting doesn't mean they automatically apply the casted effect on the new target and bypass every Global Cooldown (GCD) in the process. You can't precast any healing spell and then switch targets to have it apply. There are only a few exceptions to this rule, mostly limited to defensive abilities like Rend Soul of a DoK. Offensively, I can't recall any skills that allow for a similar situation.

It's worth mentioning that in the past, one had to target the defensive target to remove guard, then change the defensive target and apply guard. The current design of guard makes it one of the strongest skills in the game, with no incentive to change anything about it, especially in PvP.

[othr]

If anything guard should be adjusted so that you can't parry/block it in my opinion, the ability. Also tank survivability needs to be adjusted down especially for those "dps" tanks.