Return of Reckoning

KirkSeeker wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:49 pm

Ysaran wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 7:55 pm

Andamarine wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:13 pm

Let's just look at some numbers.

There are 991 city instances on killboard from April 2022 to today.

Only 225 were Aldorf City (22,7 %) and 766 (77,3 %) were IC. Winrate is around 57 vs 43 for Order.

There are many segments of killboard where there was none Aldotf siege for nearly 3 months.
I can't imagine it didn´t kill the server yet.


Now, when I look at daily oRvR kills (it changes everz hour, so it may be outdeated in few hours):

Bud now....Average T2+ population from last day is 395. 45% Order, 55% Destro
Number of kills: Order 6422 (48%) , Destro 6853 (52%)

It is pretty close and it means Order has more kills per capital than Destro. One of top Xrealm guilds like for example Nightmare/Deydream (but there are others as well) can make a lot more diffrence in kills just by switching sides than 5%. They are around 600-800 kills per day and side. Some days they have 500+ kills on both sides in one day. So i don't think 5-10 percent difference in kills is a sign of any dommiance for any realm at all. It is sometimes just about what side the best organised groups take in the game.

Thank god someone is still using his/her brain

It's not a brain, it's manipulation. Using kills as a proof - srsly? It's funny. Roamers doing many kills so what? So please use your own brain and login to the game and read chats and look at locked zones, look at scenarios for order with pug. And don't manipulate. Also, don't justify yourself with manipulations that are too far away from reality. At this minute order lost t2, t3 Human, whole elves - I gues you know who locked it? AAO Praag 80%. Shure order dominates ha-ha.

But the main question not in all this. The main - that this situation is killing a fun and interest to play. And many ppl leave. That's all.

Yeah and right now order won 7 city instances over 7. "Read the chat", lol. Never heard of "loud minority"? Whose manipulating now

Andamarine wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 9:16 pm

KirkSeeker wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:53 pm Just login now - and you will see that your digits - are just statistics, without reality for now. Kills it's just a digit. Destro dominates everywhere now (last month for sure)

Call it as you like...but I care for numbers . I am not interested in your subjective feelings.
But I hope you at least know that IC siege means Order had more locked pairings in oRvR campaign than Destro and vice versa.

Ok then lets look on killboard January 2024:

2024-01-01 6:00 - IC siege
2024-01-03 21:00 -IC siege
2024-01-06 21:00 - IC siege
2024-01-10 3:00 - IC siege
2024-01-12 22:30 - IC siege
2024-01-15 21:00 - IC siege
2024-01-19 6:00 - Altdorf siege
2024-01-25 21:00 - IC siege
2024-01-29 3:00 - IC siege
2024-01-31 21:00 - Altdorf siege

So there were 10 ORVR campaigns in January 2024 - 8 won by Order and only 2 by Destro.
Score for all Forts in January 2024 according to zone tracker was 22:8 for Order.

If u want analyze any other moths we surely can....

Order dominates forts. Destro dominates LOTD.

I think Destro edges Order in zone kills outside of forts. Idk who locks more zones in general though.. feels pretty back and forth depending on the time zone.

Ysaran wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 10:04 pm
Yeah and right now order won 7 city instances over 7. "Read the chat", lol. Never heard of "loud minority"? Whose manipulating now

Idk who wins more cities, as a pug player I'm not even been there. I see the situation on zones and scenarios (and only in January). And it's awful or you stay in wc or destro farmed you nonstop. I don't find a fun in it. So I tell you again, the main problem is not who wins more cities, but if is it fun to play or not. You or playing or dropping this game. And as we can see, and as the author correctly admits - ppl leave. And it's bad I think. And this is a main thing.

For sure you can ask me "what to do?" - But unfortunately I have no answer. Still, I have it, but it can't be realized in this game. All games with 2 sides and oriented to mass WvWvW are faced with this. But these are big franchises with money, they can invent new solutions in their games.

P.S. As for loud minority, it's too big subject. Still not for this forum. =)

I played destro when order was ruling. And killed them with an organized guild. That's the balance. A good six man can kill a half wb, if not all of it with extra skill. Now I play mostly order, and I simply see good teamwork on the other side. When we played with Nazgul guild, everyday as a team, it was easy. You knew what to do, and I am still nowadays an average player at most. Now is destro up. Then a guild will get bored, switch and lower back the scale. We swapped sides every year normally.

Balance atm isn't bad, it just seems bad because blob is the meta right now after all the repeated aoe morale nerfs. This adversely effects both funnel and open world play, but it's not going to be reverted. You can certainly adapt accordingly and profit.

MMOs aren't the relentless daily grind they once were. People have lives now, families and crud. The server should cater to a more casual play style.

IMO the server would benefit from a seasonal gear restriction mechanic. So for the first week of a new season folks would be restricted to a certain tranche of gear.

For example week one of season one the Bis available gear is annihilator/Mercenary/Ruin. Leave the jewelry sets out of it as that's too complicated. The gear progression unlocks weekly, or whatever.

RoR is ten years old this year. I'm ecstatic that I've been able to keep playing the best MMO ever. Let's not push the big red button just yet.

I do like Detanglers idea of the first group in any given scenario be 2/2/2, then just fill to two groups with whoever is queued.

KirkSeeker wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 11:19 pm

Ysaran wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 10:04 pm
Yeah and right now order won 7 city instances over 7. "Read the chat", lol. Never heard of "loud minority"? Whose manipulating now

Idk who wins more cities, as a pug player I'm not even been there. I see the situation on zones and scenarios (and only in January)

Cities are content with best rewards therefore ppl spend most resources to organise. And results are not deformed by population, which changes every hour, every timezone. You can't xrealm during city which is common in oRvR . So cities tells a lot more about balance/ruleset than oRvR.

If you think your experience will be different as a PUG player on Destro side, then make a lvl16 Destro toon which takes a few hours and join any Destro PUG warband. But don't be surprised you will be siting in WC with speed of light when fighting for example FMJ/Retribution/Nightmare/LNM or any other well organised guilds without very significant numbers advantage.

And If you think you can win with warband full of random undegeared ppl, who don't know game mechanics, most time lacking proper numbers of support characters like tanks or healers, lacking discipline and coordination to at least follow their leader (many are even playing SCs when in PUG WB) and struggling focus one target, then OK, you can dream.

The same applies to SCs as well,you will be farmed as PUG player by premades regardless the faction.

KirkSeeker wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 11:19 pm

Ysaran wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 10:04 pm
Yeah and right now order won 7 city instances over 7. "Read the chat", lol. Never heard of "loud minority"? Whose manipulating now

Idk who wins more cities, as a pug player I'm not even been there. I see the situation on zones and scenarios (and only in January). And it's awful or you stay in wc or destro farmed you nonstop. I don't find a fun in it. So I tell you again, the main problem is not who wins more cities, but if is it fun to play or not. You or playing or dropping this game. And as we can see, and as the author correctly admits - ppl leave. And it's bad I think. And this is a main thing.

For sure you can ask me "what to do?" - But unfortunately I have no answer. Still, I have it, but it can't be realized in this game. All games with 2 sides and oriented to mass WvWvW are faced with this. But these are big franchises with money, they can invent new solutions in their games.

P.S. As for loud minority, it's too big subject. Still not for this forum. =)

Look, I'm also pug. I used to play organized in a big guild on order side. I don't have time for that anymore so I play pug on destro. And I can tell you that we also get farmed in SC or that when I'm going solo I get jumped by 3 WHs and get rekt with no chance to fight back. I know it is not fun. But I also know that the fault in those situations is mine. I don't have party supporting me, I play solo in EU prime time where the zerg reigns, my spec is experimental and underperforming, my gear is not BiS, and sometimes I don't even use potions because I know I don't have long to play. Or sometimes I just have bad luck with the matchmaking. I can't blame other for my shortcomings. I blame other only when I'm 100% sure that I did everything in my power to win. If you play pug you have to accept that organized player will just crush you. Independently from the faction you are playing. If you can't accept that, get organized. If you can't get organized, just do something else. If you are playing RvR you can go SC or PvE or vice versa. Or just log off, cool down, and log again on a couple of hour. The overall balance of the game is in a good place, the numbers prove it. Balance is not what makes you lose players. The nerfed button ban made a lot of ppl leave, but balance just don't.

I agree with most of your points but I certainly don't hold the opinion of Destro > Order. Can you expand upon that?

Uchoo wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 9:40 am I agree with most of your points but I certainly don't hold the opinion of Destro > Order. Can you expand upon that?

I am also very interested in that one

But well, yeah ... let's trust the player who is active for 3-4 months (registered) with 2 posts in total on his take on server balance and what "is killing it"
I don't want to be too rude here .... some things you have pointed out are your own experience, pov and ofc they have some truth to it.
BUUUUT

1) Destro > order ...... disagree, won't get into details here, but let's put it this way : Class identity and not having 100% mirrors is fine and dandy but giving destro some dmg procs on fort wepaons and order a freaking -25% heal debuff on procc MAYBE ISNT the best way to balance for future updates And this is just a tiny bit of everything.
2) Stealth > no stealth ...... They are sneaky and if skilled can get away and they can be deadly with burst ... you have defined a stelath class here, that's what they are about and it's fine as long as both stealth classes have the same strength (faction wise). That is pretty much what balance is about, bigger picture.
3) Mdps > rdps .... Sometimes yes, sometimes no, depends on your team and setup. 1:1 ? grp vs grp, wb vs wb? what are we talking about ? Let me see how you beat a skilled shadow warrior or dps archmage on a melee class and we will talk again (in 1vs1). Game isnt balanced about 1:1 anyway, no one gives much about that.
4) defend for offensive ..... defending is easier than attacking atm, yes and in this point I somewhat agree. Order can defend better, just because of more healing capability. Defending is about holding. You can funnel your enemies at the entrance ... I wont get into slayer retri/rampage while funneling .... you know... benefits are benefits
Attacking and Defending should have the same success rate with even numbers and skilled players/setup.

Like some1 has already mentioned .... Let's not even talk about success rate for taking Altdorf. City Siege... last time 7:0 for Order. Could have been bad luck and matchmaking ... just being unlucky .... but as far as I can remember ... Attacking Altdorf isnt the best success rate for Destro, while defending IC usually results in some balanced outcomes (win vs losses).
LOTD is pretty nice and balanced, location wise and I am not saying this because Destro has a higher success rate there but because of its design. It is balanced well.It's not just mindless bashing at some location but playing the BOs will reward you with points and the win. Which I do like for such big instanced fights. Having a way to bypass the mid BO meatgrinder in city would also be nice.

what killing this server is lack of roadmap and wasting work hours on minor stuff such as ranked mode, killboard, million events, tinkering with low tier pve content, or pve in general. the "do everything but not the things that should be done first" philosophy. fix the game first then spend time on window dressings.

there have been broken tactics, morales and abilities untouched for years and instead of fixing them we got two enormous dwarf and greenskin cities nobody asked for. implementing these two undoubtedly took hundreds of hours to implement. they are empty save for an occasional alt running around to get his regen pocket item