Return of Reckoning

Telen wrote:Did you not consider that people would just spam aoe through the walls if you removed the landing flag. Seriously? Moving the fights inside is a really dumb move when you know los is broken. Now instead of spawn camping we have doorway camping. At least at landing you could actually target people other ways than aoe.

As soon as AM and SW get nerfed :^)

Penril wrote:

grumcajs wrote:

Penril wrote:People should stop saying "If the original WAR devs left it like that, they must have had a reason".

Original WAR devs made a **** ton of mistakes in every area of the game (PvE, class balancing, RvR... you name it).

yep. not to mention "original WAR devs" usually havent changed a **** cuz they couldnt care less about balance, improving the game, mechanic...whatever...

I think in all my 5 years of playing WAR, the only one who actually cared was Keaven Freeman. Nice guy.

You're right about that. I think he works on Wildstar now, seems like a cool guy.

This is the players choice. If they want to beat their heads against a brick wall, I personally would let them. I don't understand why that merits a change.

Pugs don't use strategy, but that's why they have 2 other SCs to more directly fight each other.

If the scenario is designed such that the majority of players feel it's better to take a beeline across the most simplified area of the map, and the endpoint results in hard spawncamping, it's flawed. That's what merits a change, to increase the distance travelled to go to the spawn, push the battle towards the other flags and the more complex area of the map, and allow multiple safer routes out the spawnpoint.

Reikland Factory is a poor design, I'll make that clear. Spawns should never be adjacent on the same side of the map, because that will naturally cause players to take the closest route to the enemy spawn if they don't actually care about the objectives. I anticipate that any real attempt to make players care about objectives would be dismissed as taking away the fun of scenarios, and am beginning to seriously wonder if many scenarios should not simply be converted into TDM, as that's what people seem to want most.

Those routes were always open, they just weren't utilized. In my experience, they still aren't really utilized. And it doesn't help with spawn camping. The landing and guards don't help with spawn camping. In both T1 and T2, it's still pretty easy to push people back to their spawn (the side entrance/path to back flags.) and keep them there.

1) I made it quite clear that PUGs will still beeline, because they have no concept of strategy. This isn't about trying to bash strategy into PUGs, it's about giving other players an option to use different areas of the map and different routes while still being able to fight more than 3 people, instead of having to wade directly into the force like when it groups up at the Landing flag.

2) It seems that everyone else, including myself, feels differently about the effect on spawncamping. It's quite easy to assert that something happens when it really doesn't, so unless I suddenly see more people coming here to assert that spawncamping is just as easy (and those people are not the type who will just flow into the lower Factory door and then cry that there was nothing they could do about their deaths), I can't take this assertion seriously.

I meant no offense. It's not my server, my money paying for it, or my hard work developing it. It was an opinion, not to be taken as a personal jab. It's just that this decision worries me about the future of the server, so I'm voicing my opinion.

If we screw up somewhere, there will be floods of people coming to tell us so. At the moment, I don't see that.

RF is fun now. We LOVE it.
Best idea ever for RF <3 !

Jaycub wrote:
As soon as AM and SW get nerfed :^)

I agree with SW needing a nerf. AM though while amazing solo they lag behind group play while they used to be the definitive st healer. Since wp lifetap was turned into a st heal with very good coefficient they can do that and put out more gheals. Dps wise AM doesnt really keep up with pure dps for damage or burst due to needing to spread its lifetap dot to 2 targets. What they can do is provide healing while doing dps. Ive yet to see more than a handful of players play it that way though as it takes much more awareness.

Still im joining the los abuse engi crowd to spam m2 aoe

Azarael wrote: and am beginning to seriously wonder if many scenarios should not simply be converted into TDM, as that's what people seem to want most.

There were quite a few times when i wish the flags didnt exist so the fight lasted longer.
Maybe im in the minority here but i would love for an sc, mayb gromril junction as it is larger then most where there are no flags and is all about kills for points, possibly 18v18 or something.

Azarael wrote:

This is the players choice. If they want to beat their heads against a brick wall, I personally would let them. I don't understand why that merits a change.

Pugs don't use strategy, but that's why they have 2 other SCs to more directly fight each other.

If the scenario is designed such that the majority of players feel it's better to take a beeline across the most simplified area of the map, and the endpoint results in hard spawncamping, it's flawed. That's what merits a change, to increase the distance travelled to go to the spawn, push the battle towards the other flags and the more complex area of the map, and allow multiple safer routes out the spawnpoint.

Reikland Factory is a poor design, I'll make that clear. Spawns should never be adjacent on the same side of the map, because that will naturally cause players to take the closest route to the enemy spawn if they don't actually care about the objectives. I anticipate that any real attempt to make players care about objectives would be dismissed as taking away the fun of scenarios, and am beginning to seriously wonder if many scenarios should not simply be converted into TDM, as that's what people seem to want most.

Those routes were always open, they just weren't utilized. In my experience, they still aren't really utilized. And it doesn't help with spawn camping. The landing and guards don't help with spawn camping. In both T1 and T2, it's still pretty easy to push people back to their spawn (the side entrance/path to back flags.) and keep them there.

1) I made it quite clear that PUGs will still beeline, because they have no concept of strategy. This isn't about trying to bash strategy into PUGs, it's about giving other players an option to use different areas of the map and different routes while still being able to fight more than 3 people, instead of having to wade directly into the force like when it groups up at the Landing flag.

2) It seems that everyone else, including myself, feels differently about the effect on spawncamping. It's quite easy to assert that something happens when it really doesn't, so unless I suddenly see more people coming here to assert that spawncamping is just as easy (and those people are not the type who will just flow into the lower Factory door and then cry that there was nothing they could do about their deaths), I can't take this assertion seriously.

I meant no offense. It's not my server, my money paying for it, or my hard work developing it. It was an opinion, not to be taken as a personal jab. It's just that this decision worries me about the future of the server, so I'm voicing my opinion.

If we screw up somewhere, there will be floods of people coming to tell us so. At the moment, I don't see that.

But does it merit a change if there's 2 alternatives that cater to that style?

You're right, maybe converting every SC to TDM would probably be an easier route to go. But I imagine class balance would ruin this. People would just play what's more efficient a TDM (force).

You're right, it's harder to spawn camp now that the Landing is gone. But it's (in my experience) still not difficult to spawn camp even so.

Yes if you screw up, they will let you know. But if you give the majority what they want, you could be watering down the point of a pvp video game (a challenge). Not saying you are in this case.

Telen wrote:

Jaycub wrote:
As soon as AM and SW get nerfed :^)

I agree with SW needing a nerf. AM though while amazing solo they lag behind group play while they used to be the definitive st healer. Since wp lifetap was turned into a st heal with very good coefficient they can do that and put out more gheals. Dps wise AM doesnt really keep up with pure dps for damage or burst due to needing to spread its lifetap dot to 2 targets. What they can do is provide healing while doing dps. Ive yet to see more than a handful of players play it that way though as it takes much more awareness.

Still im joining the los abuse engi crowd to spam m2 aoe

I cant wait to hear you cry when we are stuck at a sub 40 level and slayers have ID it will be nothing but destro tears and screams of nerf.

tr400ex wrote: I cant wait to hear you cry when we are stuck at a sub 40 level and slayers have ID it will be nothing but destro tears and screams of nerf.

Why thats not an exploit. I have no problem with people playing the game legitimately because then I'll always win.

Old RF = shitty spawncamping after 1 minute when there was a premade or more numbers on one side

New RF = no spawncamping happening (at least when i played it), more than one exit route from the spawn, some players even seem to try the alternate paths through this scenario now

Conclusion:

New RF >>>>>>> old RF

The "OMG, they changed it!?" crowd should actually analyse any changes more objective, instead of rejecting them for no reason everytime.
Mythic had really proven more than one time, that they made serious mistakes in this game (no offense to the devs though, as i think they got their hands bound regularly by the business economics guys, may it be mythics own or EAs).

This game has minor and major design flaws and if the RoR devs are able to correct some of them, you should be a little more open minded and reflect about it before posting...